[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

[Ser Dermett Corbray]

with cat drawing a sword she can either

a. put it away without doing anything, useless as JL is not afraid of anything at this point and a useless cliff hanger, not that I would be surprised by anything HBO does at this point

b. kill JL, not going to happen as JL is obviously integral in the ongoing story

c. cut him loose? Cut chains with a sword? Not likely

d. Cut off his hand. Cat will cut off his hand.

Cat will cut off his hand

just plain BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I might be completely imagining this but doesn't she give him the sword? To swear he will no longer raise arms against any other northerner? That in exchange for his freedom he will go back to KL with Brienne to get her daughters?

That's what I'm hoping for. If she cuts off Jaime's hand fuck this TV show :P

[Kittykatknits]

I also got the impression that she was implying that she didn't trust him. That was weird....? Did I see that wrong? Dany trusted Jorah more than anyone else in the world. I'm glad I don't care about Dany's storyline or am a Dany/Jorah shipper... I'd be really upset....

She was implying that, it's yet another example how out of character everyone seemed to be in this episode. Or, at least it seemed more pronounced in this episode to me.

I'm not a Dany/Jorah shipper by any stretch and don't feel strongly one way or another about Dany but I always felt her scenes with Jorah where the most compelling about storyline.

Although if we are keeping with Dany's character this season, she should probably have been telling him how she would take what is hers with fire and blood. He may have missed that the first few times around, it was very subtle.

[Jon Black]

Would telling Alton to play dead have been too hard? Really? -_-

I couldn't agree more.

In addition, anyone else notice the weird silence between Jamie and Alton after Jamie told Alton he would have to 'die'? It was like the kid was considering it as a matter of service almost (?). Then again, maybe he was just so taken aback and shocked by what he had just heard. Oh well, he's dead now.

[Jolene Brown]

I think it would have been cool if Alton had actually agreed to die. That would have been an interesting change - like, you're the Kingslayer, I'm just from a lowly family, this is how the totem pole works, I have to sacrifice myself for you. That I wouldn't mind so much. Especially if they had managed to arrange it right at the same time as Qhorin/John's fight, so you have a parallel - Qhorin sacrificing his life for the greater good while Alton ironically sacrifices his life for what many would see as a not very great good.

[Envie]

You all can nitpick the death out of the rest of the scenes, which I found to be great overall (even Cersei and Tyrion's awkward moment of emotional comforting)...

But for me, the only thing I want to nitpick is how Ygritte goes on and on and on for several scenes about how the Night's Watch has a messed up system requiring the men to take vows of abstinence (loved the "no wonder you're all so miserable" line) ... and Jon never breaks down and bangs her like he should have before the capture cliffhanger. At least let the guy get out his frustration before the big finale. Now he's so pent up its no wonder he agrees to kill Qorin (next episode maybe?), haha!

[Lavean]

I wondering if GRRM is using the series to make adjustments to things he didn't like in the books. How much influence does he have in the show's script?

None. I watched an interview on Youtube where he said something along the lines of "I signed a contract, got a bunch of money, and if they wanted to have aliens land in Westeros in the next episode they are perfectly free to do so."

[1234567]

The Northern Army has 1 nurse. No Maesters. No Healers. One random nurse, to tend to thousands of men. Seriously?

Tywin and Arya: In the books it was believable that Arya didn't have Tywin killed through her three death wishes as she didn't interact with Tywin, but it now makes no sense. She is a bright girl and must know his death would create a better situation for Robb. Also their scenes are great but too long considering that all of Sansa's seem rushed and they haven't even introduced the Dontos escape plan.

It doesn't take 3 scenes: we got it in the first one that Jon and Ygritte have a bit of sexual tension going on.

Also isn't Kinslaying REALLY bad....Alton what would you say?

And finally Where is Cersei Lannister and what have you done with her HBO?

[Envie]

None. I watched an interview on Youtube where he said something along the lines of "I signed a contract, got a bunch of money, and if they wanted to have aliens land in Westeros in the next episode they are perfectly free to do so."

Wow that sucks actually. I was hoping he had more say in story changing decisions then that. :(

[SerMixalot]

btw with 2 lines osha made me a fan. calling Hodor a gentle giant and telling Rickon he has never seen her climb a tree, you could see the affection for them, good acting, good writing there

[Natmus]

Yes, Ygritte's one-track mind is a nitpick of mine as well. I almost hoped Jon would take her head off just before his capture. Jon is acting real stupid compared to book-Jon, but if he falls in love with that annoying Hollywood-cliche later on I will be so irritated. Also, if Jon is caught by the wildings now, how will he be ordered to join them? A convenient capture of the rest of Jon's band as well, giving Qhorin time to talk to Jon privatly? :dunno:

[sarcasm]But Ygriite said her catchphrase, so 95 percent of the fans are propably overjoyed nomatter what. Yay![/sarcasm]

Continuing the nitpicking of the lacking security in the camps of Robb Stark and Daddy Warbuck Tywin Lannister:

The sassy nurse Jeyne Whats-her-name-now is free to talk about Robb's plan for riding to the Crag. This in a camp moving in enemy territory, and her supposedly not really having any loyalty to the Starks. She is just allowed to go free anyway, knowing Robb's plans? Really?

And Daddy Warbucks Tywin Lannister still just very carefully trying to work the truth out of his northern cupbearer, who is literate and capable of proper speech. Where is book-Tywin who sure just would hand her over to the Tickler to get to the bottom of the matter in a hurry.

Oh, and everybody saw Tywin smile and heard him laugh this week, I take it. No doubt about it.

Poor Ser Alton Lannister's pen is now occupied by the 'prisoners from the Yellow Fork'. The Yellow Fork... Well, if there's a Red Fork, a Green Fork and a Blue Fork, it stands to reason there's a Yellow Fork somewhere as well, right. And since Robb's camp hasn't moved an inch since Ser Alton left for King's Landing, they filled it with other prisoners meanwhile.

Which leads to a general complaint about the whole writing of the show this season. Everything feels so spread out, so un-related, that I doubt any general viewer has any idea about how or where the war is fought, or who is where. Tywin is at Harrenhal, Robb is just somewhere (the Yellow Fork?), Renly was on a rocky coast in an old quarry, Stannis in a castle, then on a ship off Renly's camp, and now he's 4 or 5 days away from King's Landing. Why hasn't Tywin moved from Harrenhal, what is Robb doing, what forces are located in King's Landing compared to what forces Stannis must have? All these questions and more like is just left hanging.

I simply feel the entire show is losing a lot of continuity and sense of integrity storywise with all the omissions and changes in this season. Unrelated events just randomly popping up instead of threads moving along towards forming a greater storyline.

Other nitpicks: No chain in Kings Landing, no Kettleblacks either. But Sandor Clegane showing up in Sansa's bedroom the very morning of her first period. He sure has a good nose, that hound. And he has no problems telling Cersei, for some reason.

EDIT: Book-Jaime wouldn't have squired for Barristan Selmy at age 16, as BOOK-Jaime was knighted at age 15, according to the white book. Do the writers just make things up without looking up facts from the books first?

[Mad Queen]

:( Very unhappy with this episode.

Tywin/Arya: It's just so unbelievable. Even Jon Snow couldn't chat with his former friends. But Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock, Hand of the King, wants to make friends with his cupbearer, a utter nobody. (Tywin did smile, I paid attention. I don't care a lot though. He can smile a bit as long as he remembers his rank and who he should be talking to.)

Jaime: No need to kill his cousin. It doesn't feel like something Jaime would do. I also hope Brienne doesn't cut his hand. How is he supposed to like her later?

Catelyn: If she frees Jaime now, it will be high treason against Robb, and there's no excuse that grief over Bran and Rickon's death drove her mad. Please don't do that!

Talisa/Robb and Ygritte/Jon: So boring. Ygritte, please shut up, you are neither clever nor sexy. I hope that they don't change Jon's story too much and make him a deserter for real.

Dany: A bit boring, but I like Pyat Pree and I don't think anything that really matters has been changed.

[bardgal]

None. I watched an interview on Youtube where he said something along the lines of "I signed a contract, got a bunch of money, and if they wanted to have aliens land in Westeros in the next episode they are perfectly free to do so."

Could you link this please, because I can't find it. I do find a LOT of interviews with GRRM and his involvement with the production.

[SerMixalot]

you Know it would have beenhelpful if Jon snow responded to Yg's banter with an I DONT WANT TO FATHER A BASTARD, which seems logical, in character, in line with the books, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[SerMixalot]

and a nitpick from Epi 6, when Robb approaches Lady Talyne, she doesnt rise, inexcusable

in fact I note alot of disregard for basic courtesies to the high born throughout the season

[Fantôme]

Really bad episode. I liked the last one overall but that...I'm not going to list my nitpicks because "What the f***" is basically what I've been thinking the whole time. Osha and rickon are probably the only parts are liked. Or maybe there are others but I'm so disappointed by the rest I forgot about them.

[Queen Regent]

I agree, it does feel spread out.

And I think if nothing else, the lacking of chains is what's making me question the most. Tyrion and his chains was a BIG deal to me in the books. WHERE ARE THE CHAINS?!

[President Jorah Mormont]

Ok Jaime has incestous relations with his sister, he kills the king he swore to protect now he goes for the ultimate taboo of kinslaying? I know he doesn't believe in the gods but come on...

[bardgal]

ghost decided jon snow is an idiot and is the halfhand's wolf now

HAAAAAAAA! :)

I think they dropped the ball on bran and rickon's cliffhanger, they couldn't have been more obvoious about what was going on, and no one I've spoken to or heard from taht didn't read the books thinks they are dead.

I also think they have lost all steam with the battle of blackwater. it will just appear in episode 9 without the buildup I think it deserved.

FWIW - My friend (who hasn't read the books), turned to me at the end of the episode with a look of horror and said, "ARE THEY REALLY DEAD???" To which I responded, "Do you really want to know?" He hadn't even noticed the two kids at the farm. So yeah - there are going to be plenty of people who think what they're supposed to think at this point (that Theon really would kill the Stark boys.)

As for the buildup to Blackwater - I think we'll get a TON of that next week. I hope so, anyway... and some talk about The Chain.

I might be the only person who is fine with all the changes so far. Remember, the books are all written from different POVs of certain characters (in/out of their head), so a lot of action happens off-stage and is only described in exposition by other people, whereas we are getting to see some of those events in the show (Robb and Lying Lady Talisa.) There is also the difficulty of PLAYING a character's internal mental/emotional narrative. That somehow needs to be put into live action instead of happening inside their head, because you just can't shoot that. That's why a LOT of the things that are being changed are being changed the way they are.

I'm not bothered with the changes so far, because I think they're going to work themselves out in the long run. Ones that come to mind:

- Twyin & Arya: Next week (Ep 8) Roose Bolton could show up at Harrenhall. We've seen a preview of Tywin rushing out (to Kings Landing) to help with the Blackwater. I don't have a problem with he and Arya conversing because it reinforces just how smart Arya is which is paramount (she's already killed three people - Jaqen helped with two), and is about to kill another to escape Harrenhall. It gives Tywin a lot more dimension than he's given in the books, which will make what happens later, a lot better. Of course he speaks to her - she's the only other person at Harrenhall with a functioning brainstem. I did love the "My Lord" vs "Mi'lord" from Tywin, only to be cleverly schooled by wicked smart Arya with the, "My Mother taught me how to talk "proper" (which is the low-born way to say it), followed immediately by, "properly." oh. snap. I'm sorry, WHO is smarter than Tywin Lannister? Yeah... that would be Arya Stark.

- Jon & Ygritte: I was worried until she got away from him last night. There's no reason that they haven't also caught Qhorin while we were watching Ygritte bait Jon. Establishing their relationship now, gives a lot more credence to what happens between them later. Otherwise, it might not be very plausible when she comes to his defense when her life isn't at stake. It also helps establish just how inexperienced Jon is with women, and how different Free Folk Females are from their south-of-the-wall counterparts.

- Ghost's absence: I don't have a problem with this. He goes missing all the time in the books, and that's what they're establishing: "He's a Direwolf, not a pet." Ghost chooses to be with Jon, as do all the other living Stark Direwolves (Nymeria shadows Arya.) I do wish they'd do more of this in the series, but there's plenty of time.

- Jamie & Alton: Alton says something to the effect of being a "distant" Lannister. By taking that into consideration with the rest of his tale, he is of low birth and that means not a REAL Lannister. I have no problem with Jamie killing him. We're already seeing the beginning of his arch with this scene, and everything he says to Alton, then his speech to Cat about all the conflicting oaths, and he saved the Seven Kingdoms when he killed Aerys, but no one can see that, so his bitterness is justified. Jamie doesn't know the future. He doesn't think he'll get caught, so his plan, at the time, is sound. He also knows he's running out of time - he's in a PEN (not a secure dungeon like the book), that could be breached by some drunken idiot with a burning desire to kill him at any moment (there must be bowmen in Robb's army.) Why wouldn't he do everything in his power to escape? To not do so, would be totally out of character. Having this scene also gives Cat more reason to let him go, otherwise he's going to get ripped up by the camp before Robb returns, and *POOF*, there goes her best way of getting her daughters back. Going forward, Cleos really was just dead weight in the Brienne/Jamie story line, which is why GRRM kills him off in the books.

- Jamie confessing in front of Cat & Brienne: He did in the books, so I'm not understanding why people have a problem with this. Just because he's not drunk in the dungeons of Riverrun while doing so matters little in the long run. Cat letting Jamie go really has more to do with getting Arya and Sansa back, so her getting the news of Bran & Rickon AFTER releasing him gives her even more justification for her actions. I don't see Cat cutting off Jamie's hand, because that would mean Jamie and Brienne can't have their mutual ass-kicking scene later on when they're taken by The Brave Companions. That's a huge point for Jamie's character development about how he sees Brienne. I can't see how they skip that. Having Brienne escort Jamie alone reinforces just what a baddass she is.

- Tyrion & Cersei: In the books Tyrion knows, and Cersei knows he knows. To play otherwise in the series would be to dumb-down one of these characters and be a gross disservice and insulting. Giving them that scene does three things: 1. It gives Cersei a bigger/better arch by making her more three dimensional than just being one-note evil. I think it's important to differentiate between the Joffrey degree of evil, and her. They are two different people. 2. It gave Tyrion that magic moment of wanting, needing, and instinctually going to comfort her, and discovering where the invisible CAUTION / DO NOT CROSS yellow tape was. In the book, he touches her, she recoils, and we know his hurt because that chapter is through his eyes. We don't have that internal luxury on film. 3. It gives more buildup to just how insane and evil Joffrey is, and that everyone with a functioning brainstem knows it.

- Dany: They're giving her a LOT more to do than they did in CoK. Stealing the dragons gives another note to GIVE ME WHAT I NEED RIGHT NOW that is Dany's only objective in CoK, which is too repetitive and one-note for the TV series. They're also setting up The House of The Undying and a justifiable reason for Dragon Woop-Ass.

- Robb & Lying Lady Talisa: In the book Robb's marriage comes as a shock. This way we see WHY, and we get to see more Robb. That is win-win for the show's ability to tell the narrative vs the books.

- Bran, Rickon, & the Reeds: I'll bet we're not going to see Bran & Rickon again until the last episode (so many non-book peeps will believe they're dead, with everyone getting raven scrolls about Theon killing them to reinforce this), and this season will end with the four of them exiting the crypts of Winterfell (minus the Reeds), just like the book. Next season they can meet up with the Reeds, because they need to separate Bran and Rickon somehow, and need someone other than Hodor to look out for Bran. This way they give Osha more screen time before she disappears with Rickon, and the overall narrative stays the same.

Things I am missing that I think are needed at some point:

- The Reeds - Can wait for next season.

- Ser Dontos for all the Sansa escape stuff - but there really is plenty of time for this, since it's very repetitive in the books, and could wait until next season.

- The cache of Dragonglass at The Fist - since Jon has already gone north, they can wait for this until next season really, especially since it's more The Slayer's story than Jon's.

- Weasel - how are they going to do Weasel soup? I'll miss that if it doesn't happen, but they could get the same outcome with other events.

There are three main scenes I thought when I read the book that they HAD to have this season, and would spend $$ on:

- The riot (which was only missing horses - which is fine, and impossible to film without hurting someone with horses in that space.)

- The House of the Undying (she has reinforced this with her claim this season of "My dreams come true.")

- The Battle of the Blackwater - just hope they don't skip Tyrion's chain.

I still have faith.

[teemo]

Could you link this please, because I can't find it. I do find a LOT of interviews with GRRM and his involvement with the production.

It's in there somewhere. He did use the alien analogy...or maybe it was vampires or zombies? Something along those lines, but yeah, they can do whatever they want.

[Don't_call_me_Ser]

Well done Bardgal.

So many people are freaking out. Certain book readers are forgetting the TV have none of our insight or understanding. Things are going to be different and explained in a more roundabout way.

I'm loving the show as it's essentially the same story, told differently. So there's something for the book-fans also.

My mother will read the TV mags for what's going to happen this week in her soaps and then she watches it. I never understand this and i feared we'd get it, as the shows were being made. But this way I know the direction we're going, but it's a new path. So enjoyable!