[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

[teemo]

Not only is the show better than the books, but this season has been fantastic.

Troll :rolleyes:

[teemo]

That's not true at all. He's on record saying he would have done things differently in the book, and in retrospect he would have made some of the very same adjustments the showrunners did.

But I suppose you cannot be offended on behalf of GRRM if you acknowledge he's supervising the show.

Question: Given HBO's history of completely changing storylines, how did you get them to stay so true to your complex-as-hell- novels?

Candy and chocolates (laugh). You know, it's D&D, really. They are the showrunners. I don't have any veto power. I signed a pretty standard contract where I gave them the rights to adapt this into a television series and I got certain titles and agreed I'd write one script a year and a large dump truck full of money. And they can have the aliens come down next season. They can turn the whole cast into vampires. And I'm powerless to stop them, but I don't think they will do that.

[Fantôme]

Question: Given HBO's history of completely changing storylines, how did you get them to stay so true to your complex-as-hell- novels?

Candy and chocolates (laugh). You know, it's D&D, really. They are the showrunners. I don't have any veto power. I signed a pretty standard contract where I gave them the rights to adapt this into a television series and I got certain titles and agreed I'd write one script a year and a large dump truck full of money. And they can have the aliens come down next season. They can turn the whole cast into vampires. And I'm powerless to stop them, but I don't think they will do that.

Thank you. I think a lot of us had been wondering about Martin's exact role in all this. Not sure why you're bothering to reply to this "Not only is the show better than the book" troll though.

[teemo]

Thank you. I think a lot of us had been wondering about Martin's exact role in all this. Not sure why you're bothering to reply to this "Not only is the show better than the book" troll though.

Oh, I didn't even look at the username. lol.

[Fantôme]

Oh, I didn't even look at the username. lol.

Hmm? Neither did I but the contents of the post looked enough like trolling for me.Especially on a thread dedicated to book fans not happy about some elements from the show.

[teemo]

well, I think someone else asked for a link, so it helped them out at least.

[Sheep the Evicted]

I HAVE NO NITPICKS!

I have finally passed the point of in anyway comparing the show to the books. It was the first time i wholly enjoyed watching the show since it started.

Well actually there was a minor twinge when Jaime said he squired for Barristan Selmy but it was only a minor twinge. Its as close as i'm every gonna be to nit free.

[ckongo]

"Nitpicking" is getting difficult as you said as this show is becoming unrecognizable. The only scene that was strongly reflective of the books (although shorter) was Sansa and Sandor's chat. But even that was awkward with her asking why he was so cruel when they've barely spoken before on-screen.

The writers suck to put it bluntly. They've taken golden writing, thrown it away, and wrote poor replacement material. All three Jon-Ygrite scenes were about sex. Yawn. None of their dialogue was from the books if I can recall. The writers should be fired. After getting a pat on the back for a good first season they starting thinking they could do a better job and just changed everything.

Cersei is too sympathetic and Shae... All she shares with book-Shae is her name and that she has sex with Tyrion. They are completely different characters. Why would Tyrion put up with a whore who threatened to gouge out his eyes and whines all the time?

[Stanmore]

This thread is one big bitch-fest from people who don't understand that narrative supercedes fidelity to the source material. Not only is the show better than the books, but this season has been fantastic. There's a danger in thinking the source material is flawless, because it's definitely not. But I'm wasting my breath here anyway, carry on Mr. Shrute.

I disagree. I watched the first series of the show and thought it was fantastic, then I read the books and realised how much I had been missing . Part of me wishes I'd waited before the show was finished before reading the books because I think that's the only way I'd have been able to appreciate both on their own merits.

I feel that some of the changes made on the show have been made for the sake of conveying the narrative in a new medium but many more have been made because of budgetary constraints or in order to boost ratings or simply because the writers have felt they can improve upon the source material.

Ultimately I have found the books to be a richer and more rewarding experience than the show. The show has many strengths and much of the acting has been superb, but it's not a perfect adaptation and it often falls short of the story on the page and inside my head.

[bardgal]

It's in there somewhere. He did use the alien analogy...or maybe it was vampires or zombies? Something along those lines, but yeah, they can do whatever they want.

Thanks. I don't have time to watch over an hour at the moment, but I'll try tomorrow.

Interesting, because this link of the2nd part of the TIFF interview, he talks of helping D&D write it:

[ckongo]

I would have preferred it if Jaime had been drunk during that last conversation (he's a bit too chatty for a sober man here IMO). But to all the people who're surprised at him admitting to the incest in front of Cat and Brienne, that's exactly what he does in the books too. In Jaime's first POV in Storm Brienne is already aware that he threw Bran out the window and that he's in love with Cersei and he tells Cat right before she frees him.

Yes, but as a few pointed out, Jaime wouldn't admit it to Robb earlier in the season. So why is he so chatty now?

[bardgal]

Question: Given HBO's history of completely changing storylines, how did you get them to stay so true to your complex-as-hell- novels?

Candy and chocolates (laugh). You know, it's D&D, really. They are the showrunners. I don't have any veto power. I signed a pretty standard contract where I gave them the rights to adapt this into a television series and I got certain titles and agreed I'd write one script a year and a large dump truck full of money. And they can have the aliens come down next season. They can turn the whole cast into vampires. And I'm powerless to stop them, but I don't think they will do that.

If that is GRRM's words, could you tell us what min we need to go to in that hour interview please? Thanks.

[teemo]

32:35

[ckongo]

That's mature, no wonder the mods had to stop you guys from criticizing Gemma Whalen's breasts and physical attractiveness. I picture a bunch of dudes lookin' like Dwight Shrute, going off about how she has sharp knees and is below your standards.

This thread is one big bitch-fest from people who don't understand that narrative supercedes fidelity to the source material. Not only is the show better than the books, but this season has been fantastic. There's a danger in thinking the source material is flawless, because it's definitely not. But I'm wasting my breath here anyway, carry on Mr. Shrute.

There should be a thumbs down option for such comments. Did you not read the first post? This thread is made for the book lovers. Go to the regular book spoilers thread if you don't want to hear it.

One way to show that the show writers are much worse at juggling plots than GRRM is time-passing. Jon remains at Crasters for 3 episodes and letters reach across Westeros in only a few scenes, Petyr is everywhere in Westeros (a few examples).

Then we have sloppy introduction to events. GRRM always covered his bases in the books. Nothing just popped up out of nowhere without some foreshadowing. Karstark just shows up out of nowhere in the past episode. Stannis shows up at a parley with Renly without any preparation. No council session about Renly's death. No council session about Stannis coming to King's Landing. Where are the wolves?!

If I went through each episode I could give a near-endless list of all the stupid things that happened in the show that just make no sense, things that I couldn't say about the books. GRRM was very delicate with his story. These writers are careless.

[ckongo]

If that is GRRM's words, could you tell us what min we need to go to in that hour interview please? Thanks.

I remember watching this interview where he said that. That was when the first season was airing I think. They never would have asked GRRM that question now.

[Spaßvogel]

Why not just have a confrontation between Karstark and Jaime, where he's like "when we captured you, you killed my 2 sons! I will have my revenge" and Jaime is unsurprisingly unremoreseful and reminds him that that is what happens in war. Cat breaks it up and Karstark is mad at her and seething with his men. Then let Jaime have his moving conversation with Alton, use him as a decoy or in some way to be able to escape himself while leaving Alton behind to face the unpleasant music. He is re-captured, Cat lets him go with Brienne, Karstark takes his rage out on Alton and murders him and maybe some other Lannister prisoners. Boom.

See, that's a great way to untie the Karstark/Robb/Jaimie situation. HBO needs to sign you up. The way it stands now, it's going to be *more* convoluted and harder for the average viewer to decode. Your way is relatively smooth and worked with what was already established in the TV show. Ah well.

[Mad Queen]

32:35

Now you should count how long he spends talking about each character. :P

[Warden of the North121]

I'm just glad that Ros has been absent for 3 episodes in a row; not a surpirse that they are my three favorite episode for this season. My only nitpicks are ones that have been beaten to death: Ghost being MIA and Jaime killing a relative (albeit a very distant one)

[Guest]

The Arya / Tywin scenes are a lot of fun to watch, but they make even less sense now.

If Tywin is totally aware that Arya is a noble...

He wants Jaime back desperately. He presumably knows that Arya Stark is missing. He certainly knows that he has an unidentified northern girl of nobility hanging out in his office. It would have to occur to him that there's a chance that this is Arya.

[The Greenseer]

Well since I specifically posted these criticisms as nitpicking in the thread 'How Would You Rate This Episode', I decided to copy my post here:

I am going to lead with something that I have not seen posted here thus far.

An ongoing flaw that really bothers me for some reason: Hodor. Hodor sounded like a Shakesperian trained actor when he intelligently stated Hodor twice. He is a half-wit, he is supposed to mutter Hodor as a reflex, to something he can't express, yet somehow conveys his emotion. Such as Hodor? or Hodor! or Hodoooor... How hard is it to get that right?

Not sure how the cat sized dragons are going to burn down the House of the Undying. Anyone?

I agree that Jaimie killing his coz is out of character. My only thought is that maybe the writers thought the viewers would get too sympathetic for Jaimie, and needed a reminder of how ruthless he can be. Dany is coming off a bit crazy bratty, Tywin sure can eat and drink it seems, as often as Arya shuttles back and forth to the table, haha. Not sure why they let the Hound find the moons blood. Still hate the new mountain actor, he has no emotion and is too thin, whereas the old mountain was straight scary. Dont love Brienne's awkward portrayal.

The changes in the storylines actually keep the show interesting, by keeping an element of suprise in it for the readers but I still don't like them much. Also agree with OP, where the hell is Ghost. And Ramsay? Cersei reflecting on her 'sins' was out of character. At this point in the novels I just remember Cersei being extremely cruel to Sansa.

All that said, still the best fantasy on TV, even makes the LOTR films seem a bit light weight.