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[Book Spoilers] Cersei Lannister Changes.

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It seems that they are really trying to make Cersei more likeable in the show at the expense of Joffrey. They are making him in to a bigger maniac then he actually may be. If Cersei does something bad, Joff has to top her in the next scene. Also he ends up taking the blame for her actions as well ie-Killing Robert's bastard children.

An example would be the torture of the prostitute scene a few eps back. We just saw Joff ordering Sansa stripped and beaten at court but then we had another scene where he does the same right after.

What do you guys think? What will Joff look like by the end of this?

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What will Joff look like by the end of this? The same as he does now, a despised, evil little shithead. His end is not far off as we all know Margaery arrives to become the new Queen-to-be soon and the wedding / end of Joffrey will leave viewers with the same sickened satisfaction as we had in the books.

Cersei's changes are more pronounced than Joffrey's in my opinion. She's much more likable and easy to sympathize with in the series.

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I don't think Cersei has been changed very much. If anything they're trying to add a little sympathy but I think that's just about it. I've always looked at it as if her and Jaime were on a similar morality scale, but that scale tips during Storm of Swords and one's morality plummets while the other rises.

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It's interesting that we find out she was so into Rhaegar. He's described as a fairly likable fellow, outside the Lyanna escapade - could he have been her Brienne, if they had married? The person whose influence would have had a positive effect on her?

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I agree that they are making Cersei more likable/human, but I think Joffrey was always a sociopath. We're just seeing more of him now. I think HBO likes showing sex and violence, and with Joffrey they even got both.

Personally, I want to like Cersei because I love her wardrobe. ;)

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I don't think Cersei has been changed very much. If anything they're trying to add a little sympathy but I think that's just about it. I've always looked at it as if her and Jaime were on a similar morality scale, but that scale tips during Storm of Swords and one's morality plummets while the other rises.

That's really interesting.

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Cersei and Tyrion did have one or two freindly conversations in the book, so it isnt a departure really.

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I have always tried to sympathize with Cersei in the books, but it was impossible. I actually like that they changed that in the show. Joffrey has always been a sociopath and I think he would have done in the books everything he did in the show, were he as old.

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Eh. it's a fair departure but the character is still very recognisable. Do you ever imagining her opening up to him in that way in the book? As far as I remember she never admits to the incest, right?

On the whole I can't fault the changes, there have been a few changes, some subtle - some more pronounced. They definitely make her more...human? Well, more likeable is probably more accurate. I personally felt Robert came across as less likeable (slightly) than in the books which helped her in season 1. Her attitude to Joffrey in the show seems like the type of thing you'd expect - she loves him but clearly knows there's something very wrong. I mean we still get enough moments like last week where she's fairly dislikeable, so it's fine.

Not bad changes, Lena Headey is doing a terrific job.

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The part where she holds her navel/tummy/heart while threatening to cry was amazing. I don't think I could have imagined book Cersei as that. Clearly, show Cersei is less delusional, and I do appreciate that. Better to have her really gray now, so viewers will be more confused when she goes downhill.

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I agree with you. TV Cersei is definitely different. They are trying to make Joffrey into as big of a villain as possible. He is the GoT superstar villain right now. People love to hate on him, so why give Cersei so much accountability when it can easily be handed to Joffrey? (baby killing, for instance). They find it easier to make her more like an empathetic, struggling woman with some cruelty in her, but nowhere near what her son possesses.

Uh. Wrong. Cersei is bad, if not worse, than Joffrey. And yes, that is 100% true. This is the woman that gave people to Qyburn. Never once in her POVs did she show any kind of remorse for killing someone....not only that, but she didn't even think twice about it. And as far as the "price of her sins....." she DOES NOT CARE. She doesn't fret over her past sins or worry that Joffrey is an abomination like a Targaryen can be because he's a product of her incest. Give me a break. Cersei spends her time plotting her next sin, not repenting old ones. And most of all, she doesn't talk to Tyrion about this kind of stuff. Are you kidding? Discussing her and Jaime with him? Sure, he knows, but she would never. She never talked about it to anyone. And she loved Joffrey's fierce and brutal personality. She was always bitching in her head about how Tommen wasn't as tough and as much of a "lion" as Joffrey was.

I'm guessing that when Joffrey dies, they will make Cersei into more of a villain, especially since we get to see into her sick little mind in AFFC. But the writers probably don't want a middle-aged woman stealing the villain kid's thunder at the moment.

There is a chance that the whole "price for our sins" bit though was just her game-playing Tyrion. They have recently been in some terrible fights with the whole "the debt will be paid" bit from Tyrion, so maybe it's all a scheme. *shrug* But they have definitely toned her evilness down for the time being. You never know. For awhile I thought TV Tywin was an absolute idiot to not realize that something was up with Arya, and he knew it all along. Or at least for awhile. So this is mostly speculation based on what I've seen so far of Cersei, but knowing this show...it can all change next Sunday.

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There is a chance that the whole "price for our sins" bit though was just her game-playing Tyrion. They have recently been in some terrible fights with the whole "the debt will be paid" bit from Tyrion, so maybe it's all a scheme. *shrug*

Almost certainly is. I can't stress enough how important the blackwater is for Tyrions character. He has spent the whole season preparing for the defense of the city all the while ticking off Cersei. I really hope we get to see Tyrion sally forth to meet the enemy during the battle. He needs to be pseudo-assassinated by Cersei's henchman.

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I don't think that early book Cersei isn't as crazy as later books Cersei. I think that Joffrey dying and Maggy the Frog prophecies starting to come true really threw her off the deep end. Are they making her more sympathetic? Yes. But, non book readers, mostly, know she is a total bitch and is putting on a mask.

With t.v. you need to over dramatize some things. Cersei being a bit more sympathetic makes her losing it after Joff dies more believable. People know she is capable of pulling off some pretty bad stuff, but once she's set off the deep end, she is worse than Joff. That's what, I think, we will see in the end...if we get there.

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We didn't really get to see the true depths of Cersei's depravity until AFFC anyway. Yes, she always was a conniving shrew but there were a few moments when she did have a human touch. It was when we got a closer look in Book 4, when we peek into her mind...and it wasn't pretty.

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I also really like the Cersei always has a drink in hand...kinda foreshadows her crazy drunk self in AFFC.

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i'm gonna say it because it needs to be said......reverse misogyny!!!!!

just kidding.

kind of.

i can't deny that i noticed the writers of the show amping up the sympathy for certain female characters. *cough* Cat *cough* Cersei*cough*. sorry i'm a smoker.

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I also really like the Cersei always has a drink in hand...kinda foreshadows her crazy drunk self in AFFC.

Nice catch! Didn't see that.

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knowing how much she still wants Jamie makes last night admissions of sins less that realistic

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I've been wondering if the kinder, gentler Cersei is approved by GRRM. I got the impression that he wanted to make her more sympathetic in AFFC (like Jaime in ASOS) but did not write her POVs well enough...That being said, my biggest complaint about the change in her is from Season 1 -- making her lose a black-haired child. That is such a significant change in personality and behavior and I think was unnecessary. The changes this season have been okay to me, given that they've aged up joffrey.

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cersei is the same.. you just remember her being more crazy before of the events that transpire later.

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