Arya and the series length.

[Bee Diddie]

I read somewhere that GRRM enjoys writing Arya and Tyrion the most, and out of all the characters, she is my favorite to read. I was debating with a friend what Martin intends to do with the character of Arya, I see her becoming an assassin, returning to Westeros and reuniting with her wolf and becoming a kickass agent of vengeance. Of course, I could be wrong, given RR Martin's penchant of killing his darlings. That, and her becoming an instrument of vengeance would fly in the face of everything The Kindly Man is teaching her, but I can't help thinking that she will live long enough to kill at least a few of the people she mentions in her nightly death-prayer.

For that to happen, there will need to be a kind of time-leap in the narrative wouldn't there? I mean I don't believe Martin will wrap this series up in two more books no matter what he says, but the timeline certainly won't be long enough to see my favorite bold little girl grow into young womanhood.

In the series, the citadel is predicting a long harsh winter, and we saw what a winter can do to armies in the case of Stannis' march. If there is a long winter, it'll effectively put the war on the back-burner because if it is as cold and dangerous as Old Nan relates in her stories, the people of the seven kingdoms will be too busy fighting to survive, nevermind fighting each other.

The winter could serve as a narrative time-leap. I know, I know it's wishful thinking but I really would hate the series to conclude without seeing what a badass a grown-up Arya would be.

I'm sorry if this topic has been brought up before, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks :)

[Helgar]

When Martin killed The Ned, it was a shocker because it was the first, and a great plot driving point. With Red Wedding, he created, quite possibly, the most heart-wrenching moment in the series. But I think that the fans are growing tired of seeing the Starks getting killed off, as the reaction to the "death" of Jon Snow shows us. Without Arya, the Starks have Jon Snow, who is not a Stark in name, Rickon Stark, who is hardly a main character, Bran, who is beyond the wall and Sansa, who seems less and less like a Stark with each passing day. I doubt Martin will kill her.

And she has killed a few of the people in her prayers. :) She has killed quite a few people, in fact. I also think that she will become an assassin, but killing Meryn Trant or Ser Ilyn Payne seems like a thin and shallow way of picturing "karma" in a world where Joffrey kills The Ned and then dies by Olenna frickin' Tyrell.

[All Men Must Rhyme]

Not as such. It's true for so many characters now. Daenarys has to decide what she's doing in regards to her ambitions for Westeros, the whole Rickon-Davos scenario won't really have major implications for a Stark revival, unless the Northern lords decide they want to bow to a five year old during a long winter, Jon's fight for life, and then with the others needs a real buildup which may take longer than two books to be truly satisfactory, the whole thing with the iron throne and unfinished prophecies, Arya, as you mentioned, Uncat and Brienne. There are so many storylines that need tying up. I know he supposedly scrapped the idea of a time gap, but I don't really know how he plans to pull it off without one.

[Lady Hodor]

I dont think a time gap would work, I know what you mean by wanting to see Arya as a grown up, as we cant really see her full potential when she is only eleven. But a time gap just so the younger kids can grow up? Not exactlty the best writing technique, but if there ever were a reason for it to happen, winter would be it, that's likely the most feaible reason I've heard on these threads for time to pass.

[Bee Diddie]

Bran, who is beyond the wall

I assumed Bran will become like that greenseer with the tree growing into/out of him, which will make him a pretty stationary character in the series.

I suspect at some point Arya will discover that her order has a sinister secret that will turn her against The Kindly Man and abandon many of his philisophical teachings. She will return to The North with the skills she learned but not in the service of the faceless.

Just a hunch.

[Turkey Jack]

For me Arya works because she is so young, if a long winter came and went what would that do to climax of the books and the fight against the Others, they are closing in on the wall, probably take it before the end of tWoW - summer arrives and they fall back to the lands of always winter and start again?

Who else if left on her list most of them are dead, maybe her destiny is to kill Cersei Nymeria being the younger queen to take it all away from her.

[another bastard]

Or she could learn that vengeance for its own sake ultimately solves little. And rather than become an assassin put her skills to constructive use like protecting her remaining family and/or defending humanity from the Others.

[All Men Must Rhyme]

I actually hope Arya doesn't go on to kill anyone else. I'd like her to be able to actually rediscover her innocence, in a way that is unavailable now to Bran, and most likely Rickon, seeing as he will become the Stark heir. Her constant dreams of finding a pack make me really want to get back with the rest of her family, and go back to being a child, rather than a young teen who's killed more men than people twice her age.

[Lady Hodor]

@ Bee didie

We were discussing a similar theory on another thread, and the idea was that Arya would have dreams of something happening in Westeros that she cannot ignore, like maybe seeing Sansa or Bran or Rickon or Jon in trouble, something that honestly concerns who she is trying to forget. And being Arya, she cannot leave them to die. So she tries to escape the House of White and Black, and in the process kills the kindly man, who tries to stop her... Though in retrospect the idea of seeing it in a "dream" sounds pretty unrealistic and un-GRRM-like... Ah well.

[All Men Must Rhyme]

@ Bee didie

We were discussing a similar theory on another thread, and the idea was that Arya would have dreams of something happening in Westeros that she cannot ignore, like maybe seeing Sansa or Bran or Rickon or Jon in trouble, something that honestly concerns who she is trying to forget. And being Arya, she cannot leave them to die. So she tries to escape the House of White and Black, and in the process kills the kindly man, who tries to stop her... Though in retrospect the idea of seeing it in a "dream" sounds pretty unrealistic and un-GRRM-like... Ah well.

Bran maybe? He talked to Jon when he was having a Ghost dream if I remember correctly, maybe the same thing will happen while Arya is dreaming of Nymeria.

[Lummel]

I read somewhere that GRRM enjoys writing Arya and Tyrion the most, and out of all the characters, she is my favorite to read. I was debating with a friend what Martin intends to do with the character of Arya, I see her becoming an assassin, returning to Westeros and reuniting with her wolf and becoming a kickass agent of vengeance. Of course, I could be wrong, given RR Martin's penchant of killing his darlings. That, and her becoming an instrument of vengeance would fly in the face of everything The Kindly Man is teaching her, but I can't help thinking that she will live long enough to kill at least a few of the people she mentions in her nightly death-prayer...

If Arya becomes an assassin then she can't be reunited with Nymeria, nor with her family. The Faceless Men are about service not self indulgence. Not that she has time within the time remaining in ASOIAF to complete her training.

Are the faceless men the kind of organisation that you can leave and stay alive? In the early days when she knew little ok, but at every stage she now learns more about their secrets and working habits. Rickon and Sansa could return to the north relatively easily but can Arya? Can the faceless men wipe her memory, could she escape that way?

Personally I think becoming an assassin is pretty horrible and her story line has long since past into the horrific. Moving from her experiences even without her time in the house of black and white back to normal for westeros life is going to be difficult. Someone will have to invent a rehabilitation process like they use for child soldiers.

I get the sense from ASOIAF of the futility of vengeance, like Ellaria Sand says it just promises a cycle of violence, plenty of people on her prayer list died anyway, death comes for everyone in its own time. Arya has been consumed by anger since the coup - how can she escape that?

[Golden&Crimson]

Im afraid that Martin put Arya in a bad position.

Let me try to explain why i think that:

1- She will abandon the FM and try to reunite with her siblings; and a ancient, very sucessful, order of cold assassins wouldn`t let a girl escape from them after she started the real training. If it would so easy to step out of the FM, that would be really stupid for the them. And Arya will be killed quite probably.

2- She will stay with the FM, trains and is turned in a real FW, and is one more cold assassin in the long story of cold assassins of the FM. Of course she can still have that dreams and don`t forget her ancient family, but with time that will be turned in a distant memory, or she will be a FW tortured with memories of her family till the end of her life.

[Free Northman]

A lot more will be able to happen once storylines converge.

Hence, if Arya gets sent to kill Littlefinger due to the debt he took out from the Iron Bank, then her storyline will converge with Sansa's.

If they then march from the Vale together, to go and support Rickon in the North, their storylines will also resolve the outstanding issues with the Hound that BOTH of them have, and provide the opportunity for reuniting with Nymeria - which will be especially poignant if Sansa is present, as she still blames Arya for the loss of Lady.

Arya will then get her "wolf" back, and Sansa will get a "Hound" as her guardian, to replace Lady.

Heck, while they're in the Riverlands, their stories may even converge with that of Jaime and Catelyn. Jaime could for example be a prisoner of the Brotherhood by then, and just as he is finally sentenced to die, Nymeria could lead Arya and Sansa to Catelyn, showing her that her two girls are alive after all.

And then the entire party could march up the Neck to join Rickon at Winterfell.

With all the storylines converging, a lot more ground can be covered with a lot fewer chapters.

[Ser Wun Wun]

Hence, if Arya gets sent to kill Littlefinger due to the debt he took out from the Iron Bank, then her storyline will converge with Sansa's.

What debt are you referring to? Do you mean the loans he took out for the sake of the Iron Throne, as the master of coin? If so, I would think the Iron Bank would hold the King (or Queen if Cersei stays in charge) responsible for those debts.

[Turkey Jack]

Aryas arc has been our eyes into the world of the FM and Braavos, it would be pointless unless these two dont have a bigger role in the story. If Tysha is there it would mean Tyrion will end up there and the FM probably has hidden agenda.

Whose face might Arya come across in the house of black and white her auntie maybe? that would fuck cersei up to see Lyanna again.

[Lummel]

Free Northman - if Arya is sent to westeros by the faceless men it won't be to kill Littlefinger or anyone else that she knows - that's against their rules. If it is the faceless men who send her to westeros then it would have to be to kill someone she doesn't know like Samwell Tarly, Jon Connngton or Stannis for example.

[Lyanna Stark]

When Martin killed The Ned, it was a shocker because it was the first, and a great plot driving point. With Red Wedding, he created, quite possibly, the most heart-wrenching moment in the series. But I think that the fans are growing tired of seeing the Starks getting killed off, as the reaction to the "death" of Jon Snow shows us. Without Arya, the Starks have Jon Snow, who is not a Stark in name, Rickon Stark, who is hardly a main character, Bran, who is beyond the wall and Sansa, who seems less and less like a Stark with each passing day. I doubt Martin will kill her.

Not sure we are reading the same books, since Sansa is very much a Stark and in fact the one of the Stark children who is most like Ned. Don't trust Cersei et al who says she has "nothing of the north in her" and that she completely takes after her mother. That's the mistake Cersei, LF et al makes. Actually comparing their traits, Arya is a mix of Cat and Lyanna, while Sansa is very much Ned's daughter.

If Arya becomes an assassin then she can't be reunited with Nymeria, nor with her family. The Faceless Men are about service not self indulgence. Not that she has time within the time remaining in ASOIAF to complete her training.

Are the faceless men the kind of organisation that you can leave and stay alive? In the early days when she knew little ok, but at every stage she now learns more about their secrets and working habits. Rickon and Sansa could return to the north relatively easily but can Arya? Can the faceless men wipe her memory, could she escape that way?

Indeed. It seems a difficult web to get caught in since who wants to have the FM as their enemy when they are faceless assassins who can go anywhere with any face? I still hope Arya can get out of it, since I think she is in an incredibly dark and horrible place where no 12 year old should be and that it may potentially have damaged her and made her lack any sort of humanity.

If Arya has the wolfblood like Brandon and Lyanna, then she needs to learn to temper it. We know what their fates were, and it did not end well.

[Free Northman]

What debt are you referring to? Do you mean the loans he took out for the sake of the Iron Throne, as the master of coin? If so, I would think the Iron Bank would hold the King (or Queen if Cersei stays in charge) responsible for those debts.

Well, whose to say that they don't hold more than one person responsible.

Littlefinger was the Master of Coin, and no doubt facilitated some cheating of the Iron Bank in the past, just like that crooked insurance broker that Arya killed in Dance.

Maybe another Faceless Man gets sent after Cersei, because the Kindly Old Man knows that Arya knows Cersei. But they don't know that she knows Littlefinger.

The point is, too much time has been spent on the story arc involving Brienne's search for Catelyn's girls in the Riverlands, the Hound's issues with both Sansa and Arya, Nymeria being in the Riverlands, Catelyn being in the Riverlands and the Freys that Arya wants vengeance on being in the Riverlands.

Clearly, Arya and Sansa's stories will converge in the Riverlands, and the Littlefinger connection via the Vale is the easiest way for Martin to arrange this.

[Free Northman]

Free Northman - if Arya is sent to westeros by the faceless men it won't be to kill Littlefinger or anyone else that she knows - that's against their rules. If it is the faceless men who send her to westeros then it would have to be to kill someone she doesn't know like Samwell Tarly, Jon Connngton or Stannis for example.

They don't know that she knows Littlefinger. And her ongoing quest to learn to lie to the Kindly Old Man successfully has to have a point. Her therefore finally succeeding in lying to him, by saying that she doesn't know Littlefinger, will be a kind of graduation for her, and a major step forward in her character development.

[Ser Wun Wun]

Free Northman - if Arya is sent to westeros by the faceless men it won't be to kill Littlefinger or anyone else that she knows - that's against their rules. If it is the faceless men who send her to westeros then it would have to be to kill someone she doesn't know like Samwell Tarly, Jon Connngton or Stannis for example.

Oh gods, not Sam :o

I find it hard to believe that the FM would send someone as young and inexperienced as Arya on mission anyway. Their training takes years the Kindly Man said (I think anyway). Sending her down the block to take out the insurance crook was one thing, but sending her to some far off place (likely on her own) is different imo. That kind of work is for the professionals.

More likely, I think Arya will just hear some news from Westeros (likely about Jon or maybe about Sansa being in the Vale) that prompts her to retrieve Needle, reclaim her identity and go back to Westeros. Hopefully with no hard feeling from the FM, I would really hate for them to go hunting after her if she decided to just take off. I don't think she has learned too much about their order at this point, where she would be any kind of threat to them.