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Independent George

[Book Spoilers]Ygritte: Is that a knife, or are you just happy to see me?

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I'm skeptical of the way they're changing Jon's plot, but Ygritte is friggin' awesome. She's a marked improvement on the book version, who always seemed two-dimensional to me. I laughed out loud at the way she mocked Jon; it wasn't just in character, it added to her character.

As long as they're changing things, I hope that in S3, it actually is Jon's arrow that kills her. At the very least, make it ambiguous - let him spend the rest of his days wondering if it was him. I always thought it was a cheat that he knew flat-out that it wasn't him.

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She's fantastic. and I'm pretty much the worst nitpicker ever, so the fact that I loved her in the books and think they got her perfectly in the series really shows how great she is. I love that I can actually laugh out loud at their scenes, but they still add to Jon and Ygritte's characters and relationship.

but I didn't mind how her death was in the book, because there was the whole bit about how he felt it might as well have been him, because he blamed himself for dragging her into everything.

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Yeah, I don't want or need them to change her death in the series to it being Jon's arrow that did it. Keep that as is. And I don't think they are drastically changing their relationship dynamic too much at this point. She's kind of bratty in the books (which I loved) and made no secret that she liked him so her dialogue isn't that much of a stretch for me. I can see how a free wilding woman would question the institution of the Night's Watch and some of their vows. It's pretty sad that someone as young as Jon choose to confine himself is such a way and choose not to love a woman in his life. And for what? To protect the realm from things North of the Wall that may or may not be as evil as everyone has been led to believe.

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I too think the actress chosen for Ygritte is absolutely fantastic. I found Ygritte in the books to be rather annoying also - and am really happy she's more intelligent as well as strong willed and fiery temperament.

They also gave her some pure golden lines that made me laugh out loud. She wasn't that witty in the book so this is nice and amusing. I particularly loved when she asked Jon "Do ya got sheep at the wall? No? Yer use yer hands then... No wonder y'er all so miserable!" HAHA! :bawl:

Ygritte's feisty personality is how I had hoped Asha would behave in the series instead of the slack-eyed somewhat unanimated way they've cast her as "Yara" - totally uninteresting. I never thought Asha was 'hot' in a sexual sense but she certainly had a lot more fire than the actress is doing.

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I liked Ygritte in the books, and I really like her in the show. They have made her very funny, I especially liked when she threatened to tell Qhorin that Jon had sex with her, the words she used were fantastic. However, I am a little confused by her actions. When she kept trying to get with Jon, I thought she really wanted to do him, but later it seemed like she was just doing all that to trick Jon into a false sense of security, that way she could walk him into a trap. So was it all an act, or did she really want to bump-uglies with Jon? Or was it a bit of both?

Again, I really liked the scenes with Jon and Ygritte, I just wish they would have gone about doing them differently. It would have been much better had they not made Jon look so incompetent, with the whole not killing her, and then chasing her, and then getting lost, thing. In fact, that's one of my biggest complaints with season two, in every episode they find a way to make Jon look sooo incompetent. I really like how in the book, Qhorin and Jon don't get caught because of incompetence. They did everything they could do to get away from Rattleshirt and his party, it just was not enough. So other than that, I really liked the scenes with Jon and Ygritte, the actress for Ygritte is perfect, and might I say, also very hot..

I also agree with one of the posts before mine, I really wished Yara would have had some of the fire that Ygritte has in the show, instead of seeming so dull and absolutely lifeless.

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The chemistry between the two actors is palpable. It is very hard to act out sexual tension in such a way as to be believable to the audience but I think that they do it perfectly. Kit Harrington is a great straight man/foil for Rose Leslie's acidic wit. I hated Ygritte in the books but she shines in the series. One of the few times that the series surpasses the books, IMO.

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I got the impression that Ygritte was trying to give Jon a chance to turn his cloak before they captured him. I kept hearing an eagle in the background during their scenes, and I'm positive it is Orell or some other skinchanger helping Rattleshirt set up that ambush. Maybe I just want it to be true so bad that I've started believing it.

And yes, Rose Leslie has been amazing as Ygritte so far. Out of all the new side-characters she has been the best. I didn't think I'd be saying that about someone not named Jaqen H'ghar.

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I'm still clinging to the hope that Halfhand gets to order Jon to kill him. It NEEDS to happen. I can still see it playing out not sure how.. but its possible.

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The wording of the final episode description "Jon proves himself to Qhorin" suggests that the big scene will take place. The theme of these departures seem to be that, yes detours are being taken, but the end destination remains the same. We will see Qhorin's sacrifice.

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I'm still clinging to the hope that Halfhand gets to order Jon to kill him. It NEEDS to happen. I can still see it playing out not sure how.. but its possible.

Qhorin probably gets captured too and him and Jon get a chance to talk before he kills him.

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The wording of the final episode description "Jon proves himself to Qhorin" suggests that the big scene will take place. The theme of these departures seem to be that, yes detours are being taken, but the end destination remains the same. We will see Qhorin's sacrifice.

Awesome. Especially since these detours are quite scenic and IMO most are adding to the story in places the books didn't get to.

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As long as Jon turns his cloak on the last order of Qhorin Halfhand, I will be completely fine with the changes to the beggining of Jon's story with Ygritte. It will be hard being fine with Jon nonsensically chasing Ygritte, after deciding not to kill her, but I will do it. However, it's going to take some time getting over them making Jon look absolutely incompetent. In. Every. Single. Bloody. Episode.

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It would have been much better had they not made Jon look so incompetent

Isn't that the wholepoint, that Ygitte's powerful and wild femaleness turns Jon into a floundering little boy?

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I think that what they might have done, is that Jon and Qhorin have already come up with a plan that Jon deliberately "gets lost", and Ygritte manages to get him captured by the wildlings. The Qhorin turns up and to prove himself as a turncloak Jon kills him, they could have a flashback scene where Qhorin tells Jon what he must do before they attacked Ygritte's camp. That way they don't make Jon look incompetent because it was his plan all along to be captured and they have the scene where he kills Qhorin to prove himself. That's how I would do it anyway, they don't have many flashback scenes though.

Ygritte is really good, she actually has some charisma, so much better than Yara and I thought it was hilarious how she was taking the piss out of Jon.

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I thought "I swear it, oh Master King Crow sir" was particularly funny.

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Isn't that the wholepoint, that Ygitte's powerful and wild femaleness turns Jon into a floundering little boy?

yes but not before he turns his cloak, cause that calls into question why he turned his cloak, was it at QHs orders to to get a bit of tail touched by fire

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I'm still clinging to the hope that Halfhand gets to order Jon to kill him. It NEEDS to happen. I can still see it playing out not sure how.. but its possible.

They could easily do it without any prior dialogue between the two of them. They just need to lock swords in the final fight, Qhorin whispers "kill me" or something like that to Jon, feints a block when Jon strikes and drops dead, leaving a baffled Jon with wildlings cheering around him. End of season.

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"Turn back around-"

"And then, when I thought he was done, he said, 'Turn back around.'"

I nearly died laughing at that.

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I do not particularly like all the changes regarding Jon's story, but this was seriously funny. I think the actors have great chemistry together, the unknowing foolish poor Jon and the witty brave wildling girl.

I liked Ygritte in the books, and I really like her in the show. They have made her very funny, I especially liked when she threatened to tell Qhorin that Jon had sex with her, the words she used were fantastic. However, I am a little confused by her actions. When she kept trying to get with Jon, I thought she really wanted to do him, but later it seemed like she was just doing all that to trick Jon into a false sense of security, that way she could walk him into a trap. So was it all an act, or did she really want to bump-uglies with Jon? Or was it a bit of both?

I think it was both, she liked him and wanted to lead him into the ambush. Plus, I think the obvious third reason is that she just very much enjoyed annoying him. I would, too, if somebody acted like such a fool in front of me and claiming I was his prisoner, while obviously not knowing where we are and where we are supposed to be going.

Again, I really liked the scenes with Jon and Ygritte, I just wish they would have gone about doing them differently. It would have been much better had they not made Jon look so incompetent, with the whole not killing her, and then chasing her, and then getting lost, thing. In fact, that's one of my biggest complaints with season two, in every episode they find a way to make Jon look sooo incompetent. I really like how in the book, Qhorin and Jon don't get caught because of incompetence. They did everything they could do to get away from Rattleshirt and his party, it just was not enough. So other than that, I really liked the scenes with Jon and Ygritte, the actress for Ygritte is perfect, and might I say, also very hot..

I also agree with one of the posts before mine, I really wished Yara would have had some of the fire that Ygritte has in the show, instead of seeming so dull and absolutely lifeless.

Yes, I agree. I thought it was obvious that Ygritte could escape at any moment (actually expected Jon to wake up alone after the last episode). I have absolutely no idea why anyone would choose Jon as their LC in this state. The next season will have to show some serious character development to make it look believable.

And where in seven hells is Ghost?

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I'm skeptical of the way they're changing Jon's plot, but Ygritte is friggin' awesome. She's a marked improvement on the book version, who always seemed two-dimensional to me. I laughed out loud at the way she mocked Jon; it wasn't just in character, it added to her character.

As long as they're changing things, I hope that in S3, it actually is Jon's arrow that kills her. At the very least, make it ambiguous - let him spend the rest of his days wondering if it was him. I always thought it was a cheat that he knew flat-out that it wasn't him.

Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa.

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