[Book Spoilers] where is the chain?

[CrypticWeirwood]

yeah, i think you're right, i see what looks like could be a line going from that door/gate directly toward where bronn is.

Certainly looks like a chain to me. Woot-woot!

One thing I’ve never understood is how flaming arrows work. Shouldn’t firing them extinguish the flame?

[Storm of Words]

I Really hope there will be a chain and some Tyrion fighting.

In Season One they took him out of the battle....please not again.

(Bad enough that we didn't see a lot of great Shagga / Dolph / Tyrion roaming throgh KL in Season 2)

HALFMAN!! HALFMAN!!! HALFMAN!!!! :drunk:

(If he loses his nose or not - well It's a mainstream tv show - they won't do it - and thats not a big problem regarding other deviations IMO)

[Impish]

I think we'll see Tyrion leading his sortie... the Hound's terror of the flames (critical to the plot, as he flees the capital shortly after), and "They call me half a man, what does that make you?" is just too good to pass up.

I suspect it won't be a mounted charge though, probably one of the first "concessions" to be made as others have suggested.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I think we'll see Tyrion leading his sortie... the Hound's terror of the flames (critical to the plot, as he flees the capital shortly after), and "They call me half a man, what does that make you?" is just too good to pass up. I suspect it won't be a mounted charge though, probably one of the first "concessions" to be made as others have suggested.

Though you’re likely right, I rather enjoy seeing Tyrion mounted atop his horse.

[heh! just try reading that one aloud ;]

[SerMixalot]

Certainly looks like a chain to me. Woot-woot! One thing I’ve never understood is how flaming arrows work. Shouldn’t firing them extinguish the flame?

Presumably they are dipped in tar so they dont go out easily

[SerMixalot]

Battle of Blackwater at night????

Dont these writers even READ the books!??? :devil: :ninja:

[Leuf]

It does look like it could be the chain in the picture. Honestly I hope it isn't at this point since they didn't build up to it. Pulling it out of nowhere starting the episode before when Stannis is almost there would be ridiculous.

[tripleseq]

One problem with the chain is also the general setup of the battle. The topography of King's Landing is more or less unknown to the TV viewers. The show has established King's Landing as a city on the coast, but the fact that it lies at the estuary of the Blackwater Rush has not been stated. But I think it is crucial to understand that Stannis would sail up this major river to land his troops on the strip of land on its north bank just before the city walls. Otherwise the chain trap would make a lot less sense. This trap depends on three things, the wildfire (which has been established), the chain itself (which could still feature as being forged offscreen to surprise the viewers) and the Blackwater Rush itself, since its current pushes the fleeing ships against the chain. So far we don't know exactly what King's Landing looks like based just on the show. Before the battle begins, either side needs to explicitly state where the best points of attack are, for example by putting a map of King's Landing on the table and saying: "Stannis will sail up the Blackwater and land his troops here, blah blah." Without such a setup even showing the chain as a surprise without any further exposition on its making would only confuse the viewers who have not read the books. They will ask what the chain is supposed to block, whether to keep Stannis out or in, does it span the whole bay, where did that river come from etc etc I hope I am making sense.

This is a good point. One of the main budget factors they are dealing with is location. They've done a fantastic job finding King's Landing in Croatia, however I haven't seen an enormous bay beside the city. A rather small one in the send off seen, that's it. Perhaps the compromise had to be made, loose the chain, save the city. Disappointing but fair. I'll take King's landing feeling any day over the chain, provided they come up with a similarly clever plot tool that remains true to Tyrion's character.

That said, I don't think this series is, or is going to be, 100% true to Tyrion's character. He is FAR to gallant and honourable - even heroic. That is not Tyrion at all: pragmatic, courageous (when he needs to be), sympathetic to the outcasts and the broken, but not honourable or genuinely heroic. He certainly wouldn't risk his life to save a maiden which he has done multiple times now slapping his nephew around.

Isn't he supposed to have murdered someone he didn't like in the city by now? Its been a while but I seem to remember Tyrion 'paying his debts' with some poor guy who annoyed him around this time in the story. In any case, Tyrion, while being brilliantly acted in this series, is not Tyrion. I'm not complaining because I'm gushing with joy over this series, and ugly in the 1200s is different from ugly today. If Tyrion was all twisted with his face slashed up the show would be dead. Compromises made.

But they've turned Tyrion (who was closer to Tony Soprano) into something else.

PREDICTION: Tyrion is not going to kill Shae. Cersei is going to do it as an act of revenge for shipping Marcella to Dorne, and that is how the final rift between them will be formed leading into the Joffrey wedding plot.

NK

[SerMixalot]

tyrion had the singer killed who wrote the song about golden hands

[CrypticWeirwood]

This is a good point. One of the main budget factors they are dealing with is location. They've done a fantastic job finding King's Landing in Croatia, however I haven't seen an enormous bay beside the city. A rather small one in the send off seen, that's it. Perhaps the compromise had to be made, loose the chain, save the city.

There’s no way that Tyrion will let them do anything but keep the chain loose before most of Stannis’s ships are in the maw of the dragon. Then he’ll tighten it up and spring the trap.

[Marjie Eilie Myatt]

The chain is a major part of Tyrion's character arc. Without it, Tyrion is not the same character as he was in the books, unless of course GRRM finds another way to show Tyrion is responsible for the Lannisters winning the battle. Basically, Tyrion won the battle for them, and then they turned around and stabbed him in the back. Without the chain or something else major to show Tyrion was responsible for the victory at Blackwater, his character arc falls apart. I'd be majorly disappointed if they don't show Tyrion's importance to the Lannisters winning the battle.

Since only Tyrion and the readers give Tyrion credit for the chain, I suppose they can ditch the chain because no actors have to actually give him praise for it. Even his father won't give him Casterly Rock for saving the city (and thus their reign).

I don't actually want to watch a Tyrion with no nose or most of his nose missing. Most unpleasant viewing, and I hated that it befell him in the book anyway. So I don't mind if that's gone. Honestly, I thought it was awfully cruel of GRRM and unnecessary. People already revile him for various reasons, and the hard times that he falls on don't depend on him not having a nose. I prefer battle scars, even as bad as the Hound's; people around him would still find it hideous. Rorge was supposed to be missing a nose completely but producers didn't go there.

[tripleseq]

Since only Tyrion and the readers give Tyrion credit for the chain, I suppose they can ditch the chain because no actors have to actually give him praise for it. Even his father won't give him Casterly Rock for saving the city (and thus their reign). I don't actually want to watch a Tyrion with no nose or most of his nose missing. Most unpleasant viewing, and I hated that it befell him in the book anyway. So I don't mind if that's gone. Honestly, I thought it was awfully cruel of GRRM and unnecessary. People already revile him for various reasons, and the hard times that he falls on don't depend on him not having a nose. I prefer battle scars, even as bad as the Hound's; people around him would still find it hideous. Rorge was supposed to be missing a nose completely but producers didn't go there.

"Loose" quote above was a type.. ooops.

In any case, I defer on this topic to the basic fact that SOIAF in book form is not fantasy, it is a hybrid of fantasy and historical fiction in a very genuine sense. It may not be actual human history, but it reflects human history in all its aspects. The number of characters are overwhelming, the tortures are brutal, rape, incest, everyone gets slaughtered, red weddings happen), etc. etc. There are pacing constraints in the story that GRRM has chosen to work within for the sake of realism.

Fantasy may be the secret sauce, but if you pulled it out you would be left with an accurate historical account of a fictional world that mirrors ours.

[The Monkey]

Battle of Blackwater at night???? Dont these writers even READ the books!??? :devil: :ninja:

The writer being George RR Martin, I would assume so.

[Crown]

I came here to say that I spotted the chain on the Blackwater picture, but it was already discovered. Too bad.

[Hoo]

They've done a fantastic job finding King's Landing in Croatia,

Lovely place, and there are plenty there. BTW, there are plenty of yachts parked off the coast there to create an image of longships. Yet, they have not done so.

[Fengari]

I think/hope the chain will be introduced in the coming episode, or maybe at the start of episode 9. Apart from Tyrion inspecting the wildfire stash, we haven't seen any preparations for the battle, but we have seen Tyrion's concern. It would be perfectly OK for Tyrion to inspect the result of his planning just before the battle starts, or to show a meeting with the people responsible for building the whores and forging the chain reporting to him. As long as it is made clear these things that win the battle are his idea.

[ledlevee]

So it seems they've replaced the chain with something involving pig turds? I'm very curious to see how this plays out.

[MikeNH]

For all the people claiming to see the chain in that picture... think about how the scene is setup in that pic. Look at the direction that Bronn is facing. Look at the position of that mystery line relative to where the city is.

If that is a chain - it is behind Bronn and on the city side of the shore. What purpose would that serve? If Tyrion's chain does exist in the show (and I'm hoping it does) it would be off camera in that shot, off in the distance in the direction that Bronn is facing.

[Impish]

If Tyrion's chain does exist in the show (and I'm hoping it does) it would be off camera in that shot, off in the distance in the direction that Bronn is facing.

If the chain crosses the entire Blackwater, it would be exactly where we see it in the picture (extending outwards from KL), and ALSO "off camera" in the direction Bronn is facing.

I certainly don't think that stretch of water we see in the photo is supposed to represent the entire mouth of the Blackwater (it's too small, and why would Bronn be on the south side of it?). To me, it looks like Bronn is positioned on a little rocky island near the north bank, looking south over the main expanse of the river, and we're just seeing a small part of the full chain behind him, the rest would be in front of him.

[ledlevee]

So does anyone else think Tyrion's pigshit comment had something to do with how he's ultimately going to save the day? It's looking more and more like the chain isn't going to be in the show for one reason or another. So what in the world could pig turds have to do with anything? Or am I trying to read too much into that comment. It was definitely a joke, but it seemed that Tyrion was actually thinking about that comment after he said it, like he was scheming up a plan or something, at least if I remember the scene correctly.