Tyrek Lannister

[SerGrahamando ofUttershill]

That's an interesting idea - that he decided to take the opportunity to disappear. I like that. I'm still wondering how Edric Dayne ended up with the BWB, maybe those two can meet up and become buddies, traveling away from their families and the game of thrones!

Wasn't Edric Dayne the squire for Lord Beric?

[Jolene Brown]

Oh, is that it? That makes sense.

[Lady Hodor]

@SerGrahamando of Utterhsill

Yes he was. I think Jolene's point was that we dont know directly where either of them are (the brotherhood location is never known) so in this place of "Unknown" they could meet :) Though why that would happen I'm not sure, Dayne and Lannister have no real connection.

[Turkey Jack]

That's an interesting idea - that he decided to take the opportunity to disappear. I like that. I'm still wondering how Edric Dayne ended up with the BWB, maybe those two can meet up and become buddies, traveling away from their families and the game of thrones!

He was Dondarrions squire

Tyrek has got some way to go before being next in line for the rock.

[Fire Eater]

I've read that the riot in King's Landing was actually precipitated by Varys, and that nabbing Tyrek was the goal all along. Kind of a stretch, but it's worth thinking about. He was one of Robert's squires with Lancel, and I think the idea is that "he knows too much."

Jaime realizes that in AFfC, I agree with that theory. The question would be where is Varys keeping him, and what does Varys promise him?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

If Varys took Tyrek I'm sure the boy was shipped out of King's Landing ASAP -- he might have spent the time Tyrion visited Illyrio locked in his room, for all we know. I'm not 100% sure that he'd be kept alive, though, unless he was going to be put forward as Varys' candidate for Lord of Casterly Rock.

I've wondered if Sansa was supposed to be snatched, too. She was the counter- hostage to Jaime Lannister, if she disappeared things would have gone to hell even faster than they did.

[Faint]

I do imagine that Sansa Stark was a target as well. Varys is working on putting together compliant heirs to take over the realm to go along with Aegon.

[jlk7e]

Tyrek has got some way to go before being next in line for the rock.

Not as far as you might think. Jaime is excluded as a member of the Kingsguard. Tyrion is excluded as a condemned traitor. Lancel is presumably excluded as a member of a celibate religious order. Kevan and Willem are now deceased. So that means the order of succession is...

Cersei

1. Tommen

2. Myrcella

3. Martyn

4. Janei

5. Tyrek

Cersei, Tommen, and Myrcella are all likely to die before series end (and the kids are bastards with no legitimate claim, anyway), so only Kevan's two kids are ahead of Tyrek. Of course, this assumes Tyrion doesn't get his attainder reversed. Genna's descendants, Daven, Damion, and any other Lannisters are all behind Tyrek.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Could Tyrek have left King's Landing on his own? I find this unlikely: he'd have to bolt as soon as he saw the riot coming, with only the clothes on his back and whatever coin he had in his pockets, to escape from the (well-guarded) gates or book passage on the ship without anybody in King's Landing reporting his departure later. I think it's unlikely that nobody remembered a young blond noble boy fleeing the city in squire's raiment, not even when Varys or Ser Addam Marbrand looked into it.

So leaving that possibility aside, we have to assume that Tyrek had help, and there aren't a lot of people in King's Landing who could have offered that help. Littlefinger was out of the city, and none of his minions were people that he trusted with big jobs like, say, kidnapping a squire of the blood royal. Tyrion didn't do it, Cersei wouldn't do it, Pycelle wouldn't even know how... it pretty much has to be Varys. He's the only one that we've seen be able to sneak people out of the city without any indication as to where they went.

But if Varys did it, then where is he? Illyrio doesn't have him, there's no indication that Jon Connington has have ever heard of Tyrek, and surely if he was sent after Daenerys, he'd have run into her by now. (It's been over a year since that riot, after all.) I don't think Varys would have just killed him, because if that were the case he could have just left the body on the streets of King's Landing.

[Alexander Stark]

Didnt Tyrion meet some possible lannister in one of the sellsword companies who was quite young around 16/17 IIRC or this could all be made up in my head

[TheCube]

Didnt Tyrion meet some possible lannister in one of the sellsword companies who was quite young around 16/17 IIRC or this could all be made up in my head

I don't remember exactly, but if that was Tyrek then Tyrion would've surely recognised him...

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Didnt Tyrion meet some possible lannister in one of the sellsword companies who was quite young around 16/17 IIRC or this could all be made up in my head

Do you mean Brown Ben Plumm's company, outside of Meereen?

[Alester Florent]

Not as far as you might think. Jaime is excluded as a member of the Kingsguard. Tyrion is excluded as a condemned traitor. Lancel is presumably excluded as a member of a celibate religious order. Kevan and Willem are now deceased. So that means the order of succession is...

Cersei

1. Tommen

2. Myrcella

3. Martyn

4. Janei

5. Tyrek

Cersei, Tommen, and Myrcella are all likely to die before series end (and the kids are bastards with no legitimate claim, anyway), so only Kevan's two kids are ahead of Tyrek. Of course, this assumes Tyrion doesn't get his attainder reversed. Genna's descendants, Daven, Damion, and any other Lannisters are all behind Tyrek.

Indeed: in fact, the above assumes that Cersei and Janei are even in line to inherit. Given that Genna and her children don't seem to be, it looks like the Lannisters give precedence to all male heirs where possible. Tywin wasn't exactly chomping at the bit to leave Casterly Rock to Cersei; there might even have been a point when she complained that as a woman she wasn't eligible. She did have the apparent right of disposition of it (as when she grants the lands and titles to Damion and Daven) but that struck me as a power grab as Queen Regent rather than because she was Tywin's heir.

Tommen and Myrcella are surely excluded as they're legally Baratheons; moreover, Tommen is already king, and precedent (Robert) suggests that the provincial lordly seat is made over to a family member rather than ruled directly by the king. If Janei is ineligible as a woman (possible) then only Martyn stands between Tyrek and Casterly Rock. Theoretically. In practice, Damion and Daven have possession of the relevant titles, although Martyn might demand them by right of inheritance when he comes of age.

[Hempen Dan the Ropemaker]

Couldn't read the link to what GRRM said about it, but maybe it's just a big tease and he is just dead? But that's no fun right?

If it is Varys, then maybe we should look for some kind of Blackfyre angle? Which side were the Lannisters on during the rebellion?

I think the "compliant heir for Aegon" theory makes sense. Varys is working with the martells, probably thinks the tyrells will switch once they can, LF has the vale so that's beat, north... Bastards letter? Iron born who cares (prob didn't see the magic coming there), and the he has tyrek to fill in at the rock.

After typing all that, maybe it doesn't make sense.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

But if Tyrek is supposed to be Aegon's man in Casterly Rock, why didn't Tyrek go join Aegon and Jon Connington? What better way to form an alliance than to have the two of them train side by side?

[Ladyfinger]

Tyrek's disappearance niggles at me a great deal, because I assume the mob hadn't grabbed him otherwise he would either have been randomed or just found dead, no one would want to keep his remains hidden because of the risk of being caught particularly with the level of hunting for him that has gone on.

I had thought he might be a part of some prophecy, because he must be important to get so much mention so long after vanishing but I can't line him up to anything.

My current best guess is Varys snatched him up but I think doing so with a mob would be a rather unlikely way to do it with the risk of death and all, I would suspect that it would be more likely he was a willing part of his own disappearance. Otherwise what is the chances no one heard a scream or saw him get snatched, when people were starving in Kings Landing no one tried to claim a reward by informing on his fate.

[rmholt]

I don't remember exactly, but if that was Tyrek then Tyrion would've surely recognised him...

That was my theory until I noted how closely Tyrion examined him

Of course the Master of Whisperers is also the Master of disguises. Still, a stretch.

I am pretty sure Varys set up the whole bread riots in order to take Tyrek. So he has a major role somewhere.

Marie

[rmholt]

He was Dondarrions squire

Tyrek has got some way to go before being next in line for the rock.

Edric Dayne is also the Lord of Starfall isnt he?

Marie

[jlk7e]

Indeed: in fact, the above assumes that Cersei and Janei are even in line to inherit. Given that Genna and her children don't seem to be, it looks like the Lannisters give precedence to all male heirs where possible. Tywin wasn't exactly chomping at the bit to leave Casterly Rock to Cersei; there might even have been a point when she complained that as a woman she wasn't eligible. She did have the apparent right of disposition of it (as when she grants the lands and titles to Damion and Daven) but that struck me as a power grab as Queen Regent rather than because she was Tywin's heir.

Tommen and Myrcella are surely excluded as they're legally Baratheons; moreover, Tommen is already king, and precedent (Robert) suggests that the provincial lordly seat is made over to a family member rather than ruled directly by the king. If Janei is ineligible as a woman (possible) then only Martyn stands between Tyrek and Casterly Rock. Theoretically. In practice, Damion and Daven have possession of the relevant titles, although Martyn might demand them by right of inheritance when he comes of age.

Why do you say that Genna and her children are not in line? I assume that she would be next after Tyrek. It's not completely clear whether inheritance in Westeros is semi-Salic (where women can inherit only after all male line heirs are dead) or male-preference primogeniture (where women and their descendants inherit after their brothers), but most of the evidence suggests the latter. Note that Catelyn believes some Lordlings in the Vale descended from Rickard Karstark's aunt (iirc) are next after Robb and his siblings, rather than pointing to the Karstarks, who are Starks in the male line. Similarly, Harold Hardyng is descended through a female line but is heir to the Vale. There's some evidence the other way, though - Big Walder's account of the Frey line of succession doesn't include Edwyn and Petyr Pimple's daughters.

As far as Cersei herself, I think that if she and her children were ineligible, that Kevan, who was next in line, would have protested at the beginning of A Feast for Crows. Instead he's only upset about not being appointed Warden of the West and Castellan. Whether Tommen would actually take up the Lordship of Casterly Rock, I don't know, but I think he would have the right to it - one of the SSMs about Stannis and Renly notes that Robert could have kept the rule of both Dragonstone and Storm's End to himself, and passed Storm's End to Tommen, rather than to his brother. So obviously, it's at the King's discretion, although there seems to be an assumption that at some point a place would get its own lord again.

I think we can assume that female line rulers would change their name to that of the paramount family - that Harold Hardyng will rule as Harold Arryn, for instance. As to Daven and Damion, they have neither lands nor relevant titles. Daven holds the royal military position of Warden of the West, just as Jaime was Warden of the East without being Lord of anything, and as Roose Bolton appears to be Warden of the North without being its Lord Paramount. Damion is merely castellan of Casterly Rock, the same position that Rodrik Cassel held at Winterfell. The Lady Paramount of the Westerlands is Cersei.

[Ravenhair]

Yes. Edric Dayne is Lord of Starfall and was Lord Beric Dondarrion's squire as Lord Beric was betrothed to Lady Allyria Dayne.

I do think Varys has Tyrek, but to what end, I do not know.