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Tyrek Lannister


Monty501

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Why do you say that Genna and her children are not in line? I assume that she would be next after Tyrek. It's not completely clear whether inheritance in Westeros is semi-Salic (where women can inherit only after all male line heirs are dead)

I believe it is stated that except for Dorne, the 7 kingdoms are strictly male inheritance.

or male-preference primogeniture (where women and their descendants inherit after their brothers), but most of the evidence suggests the latter. Note that Catelyn believes some Lordlings in the Vale descended from Rickard Karstark's aunt (iirc) are next after Robb and his siblings, rather than pointing to the Karstarks, who are Starks in the male line. Similarly, Harold Hardyng is descended through a female line but is heir to the Vale.

But Harrold's mom cannot be heir to the Vale.

As far as Cersei herself, I think that if she and her children were ineligible, that Kevan, who was next in line, would have protested at the beginning of A Feast for Crows.

No prob, Tommen is still kicking.

Currently Tyrion should be lord of the Rock - now that Tywin who flouted laws of succession to screw him out of it is dead.

Instead he's only upset about not being appointed Warden of the West and Castellan. Whether Tommen would actually take up the Lordship of Casterly Rock, I don't know, but I think he would have the right to it

Tommen is not yet of age. He cant make the decision to revoke Tyrion's right to Casterly Rock.

I think we can assume that female line rulers would change their name to that of the paramount family - that Harold Hardyng will rule as Harold Arryn, for instance.

Has anyone actually iinherited in this way in the books? Without evidence we cant assume anything.

Robert didnt take the name Targaryen. It is said that he had some claim through the Targs, so using that name would actually have been helpful to hide the fact that he actually TOOK the throne.

Are there Ladies Paramount? WTH does that mean? Margaery is queen. Cersei was Regent until her downfall and nothing else.

Lords Paramount have rule over several houses. If you rule the kingdom, you are above a Lord Paramount.

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Has anyone actually iinherited in this way in the books? Without evidence we cant assume anything.

Robert didnt take the name Targaryen. It is said that he had some claim through the Targs, so using that name would actually have been helpful to hide the fact that he actually TOOK the throne.

It was one of the solutions suggested to the Hornwood situation, adopting a nephew into the house and taking the name to carry on the line.

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I believe it is stated that except for Dorne, the 7 kingdoms are strictly male inheritance.

I'd very much like to see the quote. The difference is that Dorne has pure cognatic primogeniture, where a daughter inherits ahead of her younger brother.

But Harrold's mom cannot be heir to the Vale.

Harrold's mom is dead. We have numerous examples of women inheriting in their own right besides Cersei -- we know that Lady Tanda did, we know that Lady Waynwood did, we know that Lady Hayford did, we know that Lady Oakheart did, we know that Maege Mormont did. We know that Alys Karstark is next in line for Karhold after Harrion.

No prob, Tommen is still kicking.

Currently Tyrion should be lord of the Rock - now that Tywin who flouted laws of succession to screw him out of it is dead.

Tyrion is an attainted traitor. He has no right to the inheritance.

Tommen is not yet of age. He cant make the decision to revoke Tyrion's right to Casterly Rock.

His mother is regent, has all the powers of the King, and can do exactly that. This doesn't have to do with royal power, anyway. I was saying that Tommen, after his mother dies, will be rightful Lord of Casterly Rock, to dispose of as he will.

Has anyone actually iinherited in this way in the books? Without evidence we cant assume anything.

Leobald Tallhart suggests that his younger son, whose mother is a Hornwood, take the Hornwood name and inherit the property. Lady Waynwood's children share her surname, as do Maege Mormont's.

Robert didnt take the name Targaryen. It is said that he had some claim through the Targs, so using that name would actually have been helpful to hide the fact that he actually TOOK the throne.

Robert hates the Targaryens. There's no rule that you have to do so. It's just something that would be likely.

Are there Ladies Paramount? WTH does that mean? Margaery is queen. Cersei was Regent until her downfall and nothing else.Lords Paramount have rule over several houses. If you rule the kingdom, you are above a Lord Paramount.

Cersei is Lady Paramount of the Westerlands, as well as Queen-Regent. Doran Martell's mother was Princess of Dorne, which is equivalent, although Dorne is obviously different.

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That was my theory until I noted how closely Tyrion examined him

Of course the Master of Whisperers is also the Master of disguises. Still, a stretch.

I am pretty sure Varys set up the whole bread riots in order to take Tyrek. So he has a major role somewhere.

Marie

I agree, we're not done with Tyrek yet.

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  • 1 month later...

I've read that the riot in King's Landing was actually precipitated by Varys, and that nabbing Tyrek was the goal all along. Kind of a stretch, but it's worth thinking about. He was one of Robert's squires with Lancel, and I think the idea is that "he knows too much."

This was my notion as well (patting myself on the back) although I think there is, or was, a more significant motive. It was thought that Hugh of the Vale was killed for knowing too much but maybe he was killed just because his gorget wasnt fastened properly and Gregor saw an opportunity.

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I think that Tyrek was captured by Varys so after Aegon lands he can kill all the Lannisters ahead of him in succession of the Rock, allowing Aegon to have the finances/troops of the Westerlands when he can reveal Tyrek as heir to the Rock

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I think we may have already met a character who may tell us something of Tyrek. On re-read of ADwD, one thing jumped out at me in the last Tyron chapter. Tyron & Penny are escorted by Kem, a poor lad from KL now a member of the Second Sons. In his conversation with Tyrion, Kem tells him what he misses in KL, "... I miss this boy, he... he was a friend of mine.".

Why does Kem pause remembering his unnamed friend? Could he have been Tyrek, being hidden somehow with him in KL? Why does GRRM bother to have Kem mention him? And why the pause--I never trust a character pausing or being interrupted in a conversation!

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  • 3 months later...

Oooh, so fascinating.

During the interview George says that we will see Tyrek again, though he might have changed his plans.

George did say somewhere that he doesn't change storylines based on fandom speculation (as he shouldn't! imagine being that fickle with the series), so no fears, I'm sure dear Tyrek will turn up eventually. Urgh! And it does bother me that there's all these hints dropped about him, and yet he's shown up nowhere yet. I keep thinking he might be important, or else just a really, really, really annoying red herring. What would be the point of Tyrek's disappearance being meaningless, or just an accident? I don't think the series needs any more illustration of "oh well, that's life." Him vanishing for no reason at all would be just that: for no reason.

But I can't for the life of me think of a solid reason for his planned disappearance. Like, does the kid even matter, honestly? Someone said that maybe Varys wanted to knock off Kevan's two non-Lancel children (I'm guessing Tommen/Myrcella can't inherit Casterly Rock since they're legally Baratheons, Jaime since he's a Kingsguard, Tyrion since he's exiled, Cersei since she's currently arrested by the Faith, Lancel since he's some religious fanatic, and everyone else since they're dead) so that Tyrek could be a puppet lord of Casterly Rock and bend the knee to Aegon. Sure? Kind of works.

Jaime speculates that maybe Varys knew that Tyrek knew too much about Robert's death. But what would Varys do? Have the kid testify later in case he wants Cersei destroyed more? Eh?

And then there's the possibility that Tyrek just got fed with being married to that baby heiress (haven't read books in forever, whatever) and ran away. Hmm...I don't know. That doesn't sound too likely, especially since he's still a rich Lannister. And plus he's married to an heiress, who has titles and money. "Oh, my life sucks soooo much" isn't exactly going to occur to a kid like that. :)

Okay, if this ends up on the I-hate-people circlejerk thread I'm sincerely sorry. But I genuinely find Tyrek's disappearance interesting. :D

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He is Tygett's son, Tyrion will not mind he inherits Casterly Rock. Jaime is said to fight like his uncle Tygett, so Tyrek could be at his level perhaps. I personally think he's being hidden by Varys to place him as Lord of CR, loyal to Aegon. Tyrion will be Hand of the King.

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Isn't Tyrek supposed inherit the Crownlands? There seemed to be some politics involved with his marriage to a baby and I wonder if that may have something to do with his disappearance.

Yes, he is married to Ermesande Hayford, who is just a baby (that's why other squires mocked him by calling him wet nurse) and is the heiress of House Hayford, sworn directly to Kingslanding --> this way the Lannisters will have their lands. So yeah, it's a political marriage.

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  • 6 months later...

Ok year later dont know if anyone will even see this but ive been rereading asos ahead of/along with season 3 and i cant believe on this whole thread no one made a case for littlefinger being behind tyreks disappearance. It actually follows his MO perfectly. Sure he was out of the city, but it wouldnt have taken a genius to see the riots coming and his dealings with the tyrells (who essentially cause the riots by closing the roseroad to trade) suggests deeper ties with them.

Then theres his repeated attempts to do away with tyrion, which eventually succeeded as he surely knew cersei would blame her brother for the murder that LF engineered.

So he couldnt know that whats his name would be murdered while a prisoner or that lancel would be so seriously wounded and damaged emotionally, but he knew that in war things happen and his actions with sansa and scheming over harry the heir demonstrate his opportunistic acumen. I think its all but certain he did something with tyrek, whether or not it will work out the way he hopes. He plants seeds.

Why would varys want tyrek dead anyway? Maybe to preserve cersei, but why would he need him to disappear? He has tyrion to be aegons lannister ally, and it seems obvious he was working on tyrion from the beginning. Maybe he wanted tyrek as insurance, MAYBE, and i concede that he is better suited to make someone vanish, but still LF makes more sense. We also dont know if he does have at least some info on what happened to tyrek and is just holding back for his own purposes

A bit jumbled since im tryin to spit this out quickly but i think all the circumstantial evidence points to LF, and we dont have anything else.

Theres also the fact that the only info bronn ever found on ser mandon was some relatives or something on the fingers, suggesting a connection to LF and yet one more attempt by him to get tyrion out of the way.

Now, i also think LF repeated attempts on tyrion are a function of both circumstance (he was dangerous as acting hand) and recognition of tyrion as a legitimate rival and the most dangerous lannister, but having the possibility of being able to put a friendly and/or pliable lannister in charge of the westerlands as an added bonus is quintessential LF.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Since Tyrek still has a role to play I wonder if he fits in the Volanqar theory, since he is Cersei's younger cousin, we know that both Lancel and Tyrek were squires of Robert Baratheon, Lancel gave the strong wine to Robert on Cersei's instructions however we do not know anything about Tyrek, the bonds between the squire and the person he serves actually grow strong, since Tyrek was Roberts squire he might seek vengeance for his Kings death, perhaps it can be discounted because it would be kinslaying, but still it can be possible, GRRM has already given us kinslaying, breaking of guest right and such, whats one more death by the hands of a family member.

However i have no idea what Tyrek will be doing till then, he will be at Hayfard's castle perhaps disguised coz he knows of his cousins roles in the death of his king and hiding from the spider.

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  • 3 months later...

...Jaime found himself wondering. Tyrek had served King Robert as a squire, side by side with Lancel. Knowledge could be more valuable than gold, more deadly than a dagger. It was Varys that he thoughtvof then... It would have been a simple matter for him to arrange to have Tyrek snatched during the confusio...provided he knew beforehand that the mob was like to riot.

Lancel certainly knew Cersei wantedcRobert dead. Tyrek probably knew as much. Could Cersei have decided to silence Tyrek?

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  • 5 months later...

It may be crackpot, TYREKE WAS SAVED BY FAMILY. i previously postulated on a thread I started that there may have been another Lannister (Gerian?) hiding in KL. After reading the chapter in COK where Tyrek disappears, and then reading the chapter in ADWD of Cersei's walk of shame. Both chapters describe a journey through the streets of Kings Landing, and almost at the same point where Tyreke disappears, we see during Cersei's walk of shame that she notices a man in a window frowning down at her that resembles her father so much that she stumbled upon seeing him. Its not that cut and dry because in context of the Cersei chapter, her observation can be seen as a product of the stress she was under, as she see's other faces that remind her of people she knows, but are clearly not those people. My point is that the face that reminds her of her father, may have actually been a glimpse of Tywins brother. And the observation happens in almost the same spot where Tyreke had disappeared.



I think i'm still only a church of one on this theory, but have room for a larger congregation, so keep it in mind when next you read these chapters. Pay attention to where they are in the citys streets when both events occur, which is the area at about the foot of the hill that leads up to the Red Keep.



If you look at wiki's map of KL, find Balors Sept(where Cersei started her walk), The Docks(where Mycellas send off party began heading back), and The Red Keep(where both journeys ended) and you'll see where the route converges in both events.


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