Tyrek Lannister

[Mithras]

He [Ned] could not help taking note of the two squires: handsome boys, fair and well made. One was Sansa’s age, with long golden curls; the other perhaps fifteen, sandy-haired, with a wisp of a mustache and the emerald-green eyes of the queen.

The bolded squire is Tyrek. Sandy-haired one is Lancel.

One man had died at the feet of the Stranger, a single candle flickering above him. She could feel its heat, and the scent that it gave off tickled her nose. The candle burned with a dark red flame, she knew; for those with eyes, the corpse would have seemed awash in a ruddy glow. Before summoning the serving men to carry him away, she knelt and felt his face, tracing the line of his jaw, brushing her fingers across his cheeks and nose, touching his hair. Curly hair, and thick. A handsome face, unlined. He was young. She wondered what had brought him here to seek the gift of death. Dying bravos oft found their way to the House of Black and White, to hasten their ends, but this man had no wounds that she could find.

As for the young man, being at the altar of the Stranger combined with the three golden dragons suggests he is from Westeros. One theory is that it is Tyrek Lannister who had curly hair, and likely had a handsome face. The candle is covering his corpse in a red glow akin to a Lannister cloak. He also also three golden dragons. The colors described are red and gold, Lannister colors, and the Lannisters are associated with gold.

I think Varys originally kidnapped to use as a puppet Lord of CR for Aegon, but that was before he helped Tyrion escape and join him. Tyrion has the best claim to CR after Tywin, better than Tyrek's, and he would be much more useful to Aegon than Tyrek could ever hope to be. So Varys found that he no longer needed Tyrek, and had him poisoned with his body sent to the HoBW where no one would recognize him.

Tyrek died in the HoB&W.

[Petyr Patter]

The fact that Cersei inherited Casterly Rock before Kevan shows a daughter of a man's body inherits before his brothers in the Westerlands. If so, the semi-official inheritance list at the time of Tyrek's disappearance goes like this:\

1. Jaime
   
2. Tyrion
   
3. Cersei
   
4. Joffrey
   
5. Tommen
   
6. Myrcella
   
7. Kevan
   
8. Lancel
   
9. Willem
   
10. Martyn
    
11. Janei
    
12. Tyrek
    

Followed by Genna and her children with Emmon Frey.

Obviously, that list has shrunk significantly, but the idea of Tyrek emerging as an heir is almost preposterous. It not only assumes roughly 10 people aren't going to be in a position to inherit, but none of these people will have children in the interim. For example, Sansa was fourth in line to inherit Winterfell at the series beginning, and it never occurred to her to view herself as an heiress until Dontos argued that was the only reason the Tyrells wanted to wed her.

It is also worth noting the disappearance occurred as Myrcella was being sent off to Dorne to be betrothed to a Martell. Varys's plan depends on Martell support, and they are unlikely to be happy "losing" Casterly Rock. So, strong conflict of interest there already.

Of course, I really don't have any solid answers either. If not holding him as an heir, why hold him at all? The riot provided the perfect context to kill him anonymously, which is what happened to the fat High Septon and a member of the King's Guard, if he knew something more regarding Robert Baratheons death.

Saying Littlefinger has him or he died in Braavos doesn't answer the question of why target him.

[Dagon]

Probably with Benjen and my missing socks.

[Bratchild]

I always had the feeling that Tyrek was supposed to have been grabbed in the food riots.That while Sansa may have been the more important hostage,Tyrek could become important one way or another.

[Colonel Green]

I always thought that Tyrek just died in the riots and all the speculation on the part of the characters was just them looking for some significance in essentially random events (Jaime, in particular, wasn't even in King's Landing when it happened).

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The fact that Cersei inherited Casterly Rock before Kevan shows a daughter of a man's body inherits before his brothers in the Westerlands. If so, the semi-official inheritance list at the time of Tyrek's disappearance goes like this:\

1. Jaime

Tyrion

Cersei

Joffrey

Tommen

Myrcella

Kevan

Lancel

Willem

Martyn

Janei

Tyrek

Followed by Genna and her children with Emmon Frey.

Obviously, that list has shrunk significantly, but the idea of Tyrek emerging as an heir is almost preposterous. It not only assumes roughly 10 people aren't going to be in a position to inherit, but none of these people will have children in the interim.

Preposterous? Hardly. Of course the list looks long when you include people who shouldn't even be on it anymore.

1. Jaime (disinherited because of the Kingsguard)

2. Tyrion (disinherited for treason/regicide/patricide)

3. Cersei (Lady of the Rock now but on trial for her life)

4. Joffrey

5. Tommen (king now but in a very precarious position)

6. Myrcella (still in Dorne; some people even believe she's already dead)

7. Kevan

8. Lancel (has forsaken inheritances to follow the Faith and isn't fathering any kids)

9. Willem

10. Martyn

11. Janei

12. Tyrek

So the list is actually more like:

1. Cersei

2. Tommen

3. Myrcella

4. Martyn

5. Janei

6. Tyrek

The top three are in what could reasonably be called very dangerous situations, plus considering the crowd who thinks Myrcella was already killed in Dorne (not saying I believe she was, but it's a sizable following). Martyn is a squire and Janei is a barely more than a toddler; neither of them is in a position to have children to put any padding between themselves and Tyrek. And neither of them would be a major obstacle to overcome if Varys decides he wants them out of the way.

I always had the feeling that Tyrek was supposed to have been grabbed in the food riots.That while Sansa may have been the more important hostage,Tyrek could become important one way or another.

I've actually read the theory that the riot was always a distraction drummed up to get Tyrek.

[JungWheats]

The impression that I get from the Cersei/Casterly Rock situation is not that Cersei has inherited the Rock, but that Tommen has inherited the Rock but is too young to run it effectively, so Cersei is only really castellan/regent of the Rock until he comes of age. She doesn't think of it like this because she thinks she's the most important thing in the world; the Rock belongs to Tommen for the same reason the Crown belongs to Tommen. Its akin to how Luwin looks to Catelyn after Ned leaves; if she had been of more stable mind at the time, then Robb wouldn't have had to stand up and take command.

Cersei just thinks she's Lady of the Rock, but actually Tommen is the Lord of Casterly Rock.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The impression that I get from the Cersei/Casterly Rock situation is not that Cersei has inherited the Rock, but that Tommen has inherited the Rock but is too young to run it effectively, so Cersei is only really castellan/regent of the Rock until he comes of age.

Nope. She's the Lady of Casterly Rock in her own right.

[sebitapincha]

I think you might as well eliminate Tommen from that list considering he's never going to actually take control of Casterly Rock, because he's already King. He will give it to the next in line just like Robert gave Dragonstone to Stannis and Storm's End to Renly.

[Colonel Green]

The impression that I get from the Cersei/Casterly Rock situation is not that Cersei has inherited the Rock, but that Tommen has inherited the Rock but is too young to run it effectively, so Cersei is only really castellan/regent of the Rock until he comes of age. She doesn't think of it like this because she thinks she's the most important thing in the world; the Rock belongs to Tommen for the same reason the Crown belongs to Tommen. Its akin to how Luwin looks to Catelyn after Ned leaves; if she had been of more stable mind at the time, then Robb wouldn't have had to stand up and take command.

Cersei just thinks she's Lady of the Rock, but actually Tommen is the Lord of Casterly Rock.

There's nothing in the text that suggests that. She's acknowledged as being Lady of the Rock -- if Tommen were Lord, he would be referred to as such in the same way he's referred to as King.

As well, generally speaking, male-preference generally extends to lines -- Tommen's only claim on the Rock is through his mother, so his is a female-line claim. Either Cersei can inherit, and thus her kids can, or men come before women, and Kevan would be lord before Cersei and her children. The latter is clearly not the case.

Preposterous? Hardly. Of course the list looks long when you include people who shouldn't even be on it anymore.

But that was how the list stood at the time Tyrek disappeared (except for Jaime being in the Kingsguard).

[JungWheats]

I mean, for all intents and purposes she is the Lady of the Rock, but only because Tommen is a child. If Tommen had been 14 or so, they'd have had him designate who would hold the Rock. Cersei is only Lady by default. Or is that what you guys are saying...by default Cersei is Lady because nobody else really qualifies?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

But that was how the list stood at the time Tyrek disappeared (except for Jaime being in the Kingsguard).

And it's not the list as it is now. So claiming that Tyrek becoming lord of Casterly Rock is "preposterous" based on the old list is ridiculous. Obviously the list has been manipulated and whittled since he disappeared, that's the point. No one gave a shit when the twelfth Lannister in line disappeared, which was why taking that particular Lannister was so clever.

I mean, for all intents and purposes she is the Lady of the Rock, but only because Tommen is a child. If Tommen had been 14 or so, they'd have had him designate who would hold the Rock. Cersei is only Lady by default. Or is that what you guys are saying...by default Cersei is Lady because nobody else really qualifies?

Still nope. Cersei would the lady of Casterly Rock in her own right no matter how old Tommen is. Tywin is dead, Jaime disinherited and Tyrion wanted for murder and treason. She's next in line. There's no "for all intents and purposes." She is the lady of Casterly Rock, period. Tommen doesn't inherit it until she dies or she abdicates it to him, no matter how old he is.

I think you might as well eliminate Tommen from that list considering he's never going to actually take control of Casterly Rock, because he's already King. He will give it to the next in line just like Robert gave Dragonstone to Stannis and Storm's End to Renly.

I believe it's an optional thing. Like in theory Robert could have held onto Storm's End but instead gave it to Renly. And Tommen could in theory hold both the throne and Casterly Rock, but he might pass it to Myrcella.

[Colonel Green]

I mean, for all intents and purposes she is the Lady of the Rock, but only because Tommen is a child. If Tommen had been 14 or so, they'd have had him designate who would hold the Rock. Cersei is only Lady by default. Or is that what you guys are saying...by default Cersei is Lady because nobody else really qualifies?

No. Cersei is Tywin's only child who can inherit (since Jaime swore on oath not to inherit anything, and Tyrion is an attainted criminal. Thus, she is Tywin's direct heir. Tommen, in turn, is Cersei's direct heir, so he will inherit it when she dies, and may choose to keep it as crown property or reassign it to somebody else.

[Petyr Patter]

Preposterous? Hardly. Of course the list looks long when you include people who shouldn't even be on it anymore.

1. Jaime (disinherited because of the Kingsguard)

2. Tyrion (disinherited for treason/regicide/patricide)

3. Cersei (Lady of the Rock now but on trial for her life)

4. Joffrey

5. Tommen (king now but in a very precarious position)

6. Myrcella (still in Dorne; some people even believe she's already dead)

7. Kevan

8. Lancel (has forsaken inheritances to follow the Faith and isn't fathering any kids)

9. Willem

10. Martyn

11. Janei

12. Tyrek

So the list is actually more like:

1. Cersei

2. Tommen

3. Myrcella

4. Martyn

5. Janei

6. Tyrek

The top three are in what could reasonably be called very dangerous situations, plus considering the crowd who thinks Myrcella was already killed in Dorne (not saying I believe she was, but it's a sizable following). Martyn is a squire and Janei is a barely more than a toddler; neither of them is in a position to have children to put any padding between themselves and Tyrek. And neither of them would be a major obstacle to overcome if Varys decides he wants them out of the way.

I've actually read the theory that the riot was always a distraction drummed up to get Tyrek.

My list is very deliberately set at the time Tyrek vanished. At that time, there were roughly 10 people ahead of him to inherit, which is to say he is probably further down the line then Aegon the Unlikely was.

And it's not the list as it is now. So claiming that Tyrek becoming lord of Casterly Rock is "preposterous" based on the old list is ridiculous.

Now we're arguing two different things. Can Tyrek be in a position to inherit? Yes. Did somebody abduct or "remove him from the game" specifically to have a future heir to Casterly Rock? That is stretching the realm of believability. A plot that requires 10 people or so to be dead or exiled? Is Tyrek such a bastard that he'd be happy with more than half his relatives dying under unpleasant circumstances so he could be Lord of Casterly Rock? To say nothing of the reality of flexible laws in Westeros. Could Genna with Frey and other Lannister backing keep Tyrek out and her children in? Probably, unless Tyrek had his own support, which he isn't getting by playing possum. It certainly wouldn't be automatic, if that is what Varys or Littlefinger was hoping for.

And really, if Tyrek was in on a plot, he wouldn't need to be captured, he just need to keep sitting pretty while his relatives died. If he wasn't a willingly participant, then he isn't a pawn that can be counted on to be controlled once he is the legal heir.

I think a better explanation is he knows something about Robert's death, or some other great political secret, though I am clueless as to what that could be.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

My list is very deliberately set at the time Tyrek vanished. At that time, there were roughly 10 people ahead of him to inherit, which is to say he is probably further down the line then Aegon the Unlikely was.

But again, that's why grabbing him when they did was a smart move. At the time, no one really cared or tried too hard to find him. But you let the inter-family conflict play itself out and meddle where you can (i.e. Varys and Littlefinger, in various combinations, effectively remove Tywin, Tyrion, Joffrey and Kevan), and bide your time, and eventually he's much closer to the front of the line. If Tyrek had been toward the front of the line at the time he'd vanished, he'd have been a much higher-value target, meaning the family would have worked harder to find him, which diminishes the intelligence of stealing him in the first place. It's because at the time he seems so unimportant that the kidnapping works.

And I don't think Tyrek is in on it, no. I think he's probably a prisoner being set up as a puppet governor.

[sebitapincha]

I believe it's an optional thing. Like in theory Robert could have held onto Storm's End but instead gave it to Renly. And Tommen could in theory hold both the throne and Casterly Rock, but he might pass it to Myrcella.

I agree, but Tommen has Dragonstone, Storm's End, and is second in line for Casterly Rock. He's not going to hold on to all of that.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I agree, but Tommen has Dragonstone, Storm's End, and is second in line for Casterly Rock. He's not going to hold on to all of that.

I'm just saying that he could if he wanted to. It's his choice whether to give something to Myrcella.

[Colonel Green]

I agree, but Tommen has Dragonstone, Storm's End, and is second in line for Casterly Rock. He's not going to hold on to all of that.

Debatable. Holding onto all those troops directly might be a smart move for the Crown, finally making it the single-largest force in the land.

[VicsFieryHand]

He's the Corsair King?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

He's the Corsair King?

I think it's Gerion who's the favorite candidate for that one, for some reason.