Robb and Theon, an undeveloped relationship and a writing mistake.

[Frumpus]

^Have you seen No Country For Old Men, free Northman? I have a feeling you'd hate it :P

Oh god that movie. Never felt so disappointed walking out of a theater.

[Vandalism]

And I never really mentioned necessarily wanting Theon to confess. =P

[Dr. Pepper]

And I never really mentioned necessarily wanting Theon to confess. =P

Ah, but you did. Multiple times.

Now, I'm just saying, who would not want to read a scene where Robb asked Theon, "Why, Theon? Why did you do it?"

Asking Theon why he did it is asking him to confess.

Theon could have been taken by Ramsay to the Red Wedding, where Robb was killed before he planned to execute Theon, and then Ramsay could have taken Theon to the Dreadfort for torture

.

Keeping in mind, my alternate scenario would have changed nothing except for giving us one last Robb/Theon scene.

And Ramsay isn't giving up Reek, he's taking Reek to the Red Wedding as part of Roose Bolton's force where he will participate in the betrayal of Robb and then take Reek back North with him.

Why would Theon not spill the beans if he was in front of Robb at the Twins?

Ramsay would then pass Moat Cailin, with Theon as a captive. He would have attended the Red Wedding enthusiastically, being the sadistic bastard he is, and sit by in the bastard's feasting tent (he's still a bastard at this point).

Theon would then be presented to Robb and I would have the emotional loose end wrapped up witha nice, chilling conversation. Robb would decide to behead Theon on the morrow, or punish him or whatever, after attending the wedding. Robb would then be killed at the wedding and Theon would have still had lots of 'unsaid apologies' as some of you guys stated.

What would this last pow-wow would be other than Theon confessing and apologizing if he thinks he's going to be beheaded? It really would have been stupid for Ramsay to take Theon down to the Twins just so Robb and Theon could have some closure.

[lojzelote]

I enjoy reading fantasy, but I particularly dislike the magical elements of the genre. The best thing about ASOIAF is that the emotional narrative of the characters is so realistic that even the dragons, direwolves, and zombies feels real. There are no do-overs or rewind in real life. When someone dies, you always think about the things left unsaid and undone. You often realize a great many things about your relationship with the deceased person. We learn a whole lot about how Theon felt about his relationship with Robb when he thinks about how he should have been with him at the Red wedding. From that one simple thought, we learn that Theon thought very highly of Robb, he loved him as a brother, he regretted the choices he made that led him to Winterfell and that he regretted the choices he made after taking Winterfell. When he thought that, it was like a punch to the gut and it made his betrayal so much worse. Another thing we deal with in real life is that things don't always get tied up in a neat little package. While living life, goals and desires and other things can pass you by. Happily ever afters is a thing of fairy tales. If this was a fairy tale, then Arya would get to kill all of her list herself, Theon would get to talk to Robb one last time, people like Ramsay would get their comeuppance, Jon and Cat would get to make peace with one another, and Davos would get to live out his days with his wife and remaining sons. These happily ever afters would make ASOIAF a fairy tale, and, while I might still read it, I'd toss the books aside with other semi-decent books that I'll never read again and I definitely wouldn't join a forum to discuss all the awesomeness of this not-a-fairy-tale series. When George tells us through Sansa that life is not a song, he's pretty much telling us that we shouldn't expect his books to be a song that has an ending where everyone gets what they want all wrapped up in a bright and shiny bow. He gave the warning early enough in the series so readers would be aware that this is not a fairy tale. Theon getting the chance to talk to Robb before Robb died would be very fairy tale.

Just to play the devil´s advocate, life is a song. At least in these books. It´s A Song of Ice and Fire, remember? :D But George likes irony, maybe that´s it. ;)

[GreenDream]

The original post raises a general problem I have with this series - which is still my favourite series by the way.

I feel Martin has FAR too many emotional loose ends in his story.

Like Jon never getting to face Catelyn when his true identity becomes known, so that all the years of unresolved antagonism can finally have an ''aha'' moment.

Perhaps they will with zombie cat? who knows?

Like none of the Starks ever getting to kill Joffrey personally for beheading Eddard.

Actually, unknowingly, Sansa provided the poison that killed Joffrey.

Like most of the people on Arya's list dying off without her involvement.

Actually, She and the hound killed 2 of them at the inn, and as Nymeria she killed at least 2 more (I don't have my books in front of me to find the passage) She left the hound to die(I believe he is dead, yes) She also had a direct hand in Armory Lorch's death (after she overthrew harrenhall, he was put in the bear pit) She had 2 of them killed by Jaqen, and Gendry killed Biter - you could argue she helped the circumstances of that happening too.

Like Roose Bolton potentially being defeated by Stannis instead of by one of Robb's brothers.

Well, we don't know what has happened yet, but it is quite possible that "Arya" will be the demise of the Boltons as well.

I can go on and on.

Basically, the lack of cathartic moments is what I dislike in this series.

Robb facing up to Theon would have been one such example.

I personally love this series exactly how Martin has written it. I think he shows great restraint, imagination, and skill. It takes quite a master to artfully weave a story such as this. Any writer can tell a story, it takes a lot of skill to know when less is more. Sometimes the absence of certain details creates the depth and mystery. I believe it is this reason that so many people are so dedicated to this story. If he simply wrote down the story start to finish and left nothing out, implied nothing, left nothing to wonder or debate about; what a boring story that would be. We are kept on the edge of our seat, and keep coming back for more, because of those "loose ends". We all yearn to find out the secrets he has created. Also by leaving things unsaid, ie Theon and Robb, Eddard and Jon, etc, it only strengthens the story for me. Like Dr. Pepper said, the reality of this story, makes the magical elements believable. It's the reality of the human suffering, the insight to their suffering and to their thoughts that let us identify with the characters. It's what really makes the story for me.

As to the OP statements about wishing Martin showed more of Theon and Robb's relationship. I can understand that. But I wouldn't want it changed. Martin purposely didn't have them as POVs in the first book. Same as Jaime and Cersei. He hinted at their relationship, but didn't want to have us in their heads. He could have written the story through Robb's POV, then we would have identified with him much more strongly, then imagine what the Red Wedding would have been like. But that would have changed the feel of the book. I don't believe he did anything as a mistake. Martin is nothing if not methodical. What he writes has meaning and purpose for his story. I would not change a thing. I think it's splitting hairs saying he should have done it this way or that way, or saying such and such was a mistake. If you don't like it, I suppose you don't have to read it.

[Vandalism]

LOL no I didn't specifically mean a confession, dude. I meant a conversation. Whether Theon would spill the beans or not is not something confirmed.

[IceGal]

Now that Robb and Theon can't have that one last conversation, I'm hoping for the next best thing - Jon and Theon face to face.

A meeting of the two Stark "outsiders" will be very interesting.

[Sarnius]

I completely 100% agree.

Hopefully this is something they change in the TV series.