Just Finished Book 5... My Thoughts/Questions

[playXray]

Ok, so I just finished book 5 after starting the series late last year. I must say that I was a bit disappointed by books 4 and 5 for their very slow plot progress, but it would be unfair to say that I didn't enjoy them.

A lot of people seem to say that books 4 and 5 are "filler" books that are merely setting up the finale, which I hope is true. However, a lot of people thought this about Star Wars Episode 1, which many assumed was crap because Lucas had so much good stuff to set up for Episodes 2 & 3, which would then be brilliant. As it turned out, they were all turds of equal magnitude. I personally also thought the same thing about the second Matrix film, where basically nothing happened for the whole film except a bunch of fighting and racing. As it turned out. both the 2nd and the 3rd movies were just crap films.

So what's going to happen to ASoIaF? Does anyone reckon that Martin has simply lost his touch, or that the stories have run out of steam? Or is this a deliberate change in direction, as Martin didn't want his books to become known merely page turners?

It's also possible that the disjointed way that books 4 and 5 were written (with the whole 5 year gap thing, having to split out the books by location instead of chronologically etc) made them inherently hard work and now they're out of the way Martin can get back on track with book 6.

Or, maybe it's just me and actually a lot of people loved books 4 and 5 as much as the first three. Does anyone prefer the style of books 4 and 5 to the previous books?

If I had to rate the books, I'd say books 1 - 3 are all five stars, whereas books 4 and 5 are both four stars. What do other people think of them?

[danm_999]

It's also possible that the disjointed way that books 4 and 5 were written (with the whole 5 year gap thing, having to split out the books by location instead of chronologically etc) made them inherently hard work and now they're out of the way Martin can get back on track with book 6.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. From what we know of book 6 already, (it looks like there's going to be a big battle in Mereen, another at Winterfell, a third at Storm's End) it's going to be action packed right out the door. It's going to be far more like A Storm of Swords it seems, than the place-setting efforts of Books 4 and 5.

[Lady Hodor]

I trust Martin far too much to ever think he's lost his touch, he is simply too good a writer ever to sink to that, I believe that with every oath and promise.

And his method is oft throwing us off guard, lulling us into a false sense of security, only to throw something like the Red Wedding on us again!

I actually loved a Dance with Dragons, I thought it was utterly brilliant, though a Storm of Swords is still my favourite.

[Crown]

I love Feast and the Northern story-lines in Dance, maybe because I started to read them knowing they would be filler books, so I didn't expect any story progress at all. Had a good time with the worldbuilding.

[Valkyrja]

Yeah, I've been hoping it was just a five-year gap related issue. I hope that now the stuff that was supposed to have happened in the flashbacks has happened and that the plot can start progressing again. This is one of the main reasons I think that Jon Snow is not really 'dead', as his 'death' happened at a time when (if there had been a five year gap) his storyline would only have just started up again. If that makes sense....

Or maybe it is just my wishful thinking.... :P

[Maxpey]

Ok, so I just finished book 5 after starting the series late last year. I must say that I was a bit disappointed by books 4 and 5 for their very slow plot progress, but it would be unfair to say that I didn't enjoy them.

A lot of people seem to say that books 4 and 5 are "filler" books that are merely setting up the finale, which I hope is true. However, a lot of people thought this about Star Wars Episode 1, which many assumed was crap because Lucas had so much good stuff to set up for Episodes 2 & 3, which would then be brilliant. As it turned out, they were all turds of equal magnitude. I personally also thought the same thing about the second Matrix film, where basically nothing happened for the whole film except a bunch of fighting and racing. As it turned out. both the 2nd and the 3rd movies were just crap films.

So what's going to happen to ASoIaF? Does anyone reckon that Martin has simply lost his touch, or that the stories have run out of steam? Or is this a deliberate change in direction, as Martin didn't want his books to become known merely page turners?

It's also possible that the disjointed way that books 4 and 5 were written (with the whole 5 year gap thing, having to split out the books by location instead of chronologically etc) made them inherently hard work and now they're out of the way Martin can get back on track with book 6.

Or, maybe it's just me and actually a lot of people loved books 4 and 5 as much as the first three. Does anyone prefer the style of books 4 and 5 to the previous books?

If I had to rate the books, I'd say books 1 - 3 are all five stars, whereas books 4 and 5 are both four stars. What do other people think of them?

I agree with you. Books 4 and 5 were a letdown for me as well, but I think that was because the first 3 books were so compelling.

[Valkyrja]

Sorry I forgot to address the main question: Yes, I agree....books 1-3 were better. Feast was my least favourite, just because it contained so many of my least favourite characters and settings. I did think though that there was some great writing in Feast, and actually the Brienne chapters are some of my favourites. I enjoyed the first half of Dance immensely, and second half I enjoyed but a bit less. At least Dance had the North and the Wall stuff, which was for the most part quite awesome. I didn't like Dany's storyline in Dance, though, I found it very difficult to slog through, mainly because I think we can all agree that Meereen is a horrible place and should be roasted. :P

Part of me actually wishes GRRM *had* done the five year gap, as I think many of the problems might have been avoided. However, I think he also had some good reasons for not doing it, so it was a bit of a rock and a hard place really.

Overall, my biggest issue with Dance was the Jon Snow ending, as I truly felt like the wind was knocked out of my sails after reading that. I wasn't expected Jon's plans to all go swimmingly, of course, and it was building up for something bad to happen, but I just felt like by dangling the option that could have been Jon Snow riding out to kick some Bolton arse with an army of Wildings, and then kicking it out from under us.....well, at this point, GRRM is just trolling us. :P

[playXray]

I hope what you say is true, but all your replies are making me really excited about book 6 already and we've got literally years to wait! I can't start wishing my life away just so I can read the next ASoIaF book! :)

[Blisscraft]

HBO brought me to the book series after the first espisode. I had to find out more about these families. I love all of the books, however, I know that many don't appreciate AFFC and ADWD as much as the first three.

In defense of the last two, after rereading (a good way to pass the time in wait for the next book) AFFC and ADWD are amazing. Neither is filler. Both are further explanations of Westeros and beyond. I recommend you read them over from the beginning and see how briliantly composed all of the books are. It's not just the plot. It's the characters and the lands each inhabits. Finally, GRRM's writing style is so lusty, immediate, and detailed, it expands and increases one's appreciation of his enormous talent.

[ViennaGirl]

I thought book 5 was more similar to books 1 and 3, which are my favorites. I look at 2 and 4 as more fillers. My least favorite is 4. I loved the way book 5 advanced the north plot, with Winterfell and the Wall and White Harbor. I also loved that Davos had a great arc (which hopefully won't end with his death any time soon).

[SeanF]

I came late to the series (in June 2011) and simply read books 1 to 5 continuously for the next two months.

I didn't consider there was any drop in quality, although I can understand the frustration of people who waited 5 years for Feast, and 6 years for Dance.

That said, I wouldn't have been displeased if Martin had pruned the Essos chapters a bit, and then included the battles for Mereen and Winterfell.

[Hear Us Roar]

I read the books in late 2011, the last two were filler. I could not even get through a feast and went with the audiobook. There was no progression, characters were just stuck in place, not the most enjoyable read.

[John W]

I liked both AFFC and ADWD.

In AFFC I especially liked reading about Cersei undoing everything she worked to establish.

In ADWD I liked everything except I thought the weakest parts of it were the DANY chapters.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

I'm hoping that a revised (i.e., re-edited) edition of ADWD is published. Just a little trimming here and there, and more attention to language would have made it a much better read.

I like AFFC better than ADWD because I could see certain stories being wrapped up and other stories being set up, for example, the supposedly conquered Riverlands seemed poised to explode at the end of AFFC. ADWD just seemed like 1000 pages of prep for the battle of Winterfell . . . which didn't happen. WTF???

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

AFfC has some of GRRM's best writing ever. The Brienne chapter where she finds the fool and Nimble Dick dies is one the most poignant in the series. One of my favorite chapters in the whole series.

I could do with a bit less Ironborn idiots, but the Kingsmoot chapter was awesome. Didn't care much for the Dornish stuff. Doran annoys the hell out of me.

The Cersei and the Faith stuff was great. Jaime stuff was good.

ADwD was a mix of AMAZING (Bran, Davos, Theon), good (Tyrion, Barriston, Mel, Jon), and tedious (Dany, stupid Dornish idiots).

Not as exciting as books 1-3, but still damn good overall. Great world-building.

[eyeheartsansa]

I've never felt that the writing iself was in any way inferior. On the first read some of it seemed boring because I was waiting for the next thing to happen.. going back you notice so many more things, connections to other people and events and just interesting details that are easy to miss.

I think 4 and 5 have a stronger sense of atmosphere and internally the characters are in much darker places. There is lots to love here but I don't think GRRM is interesting in writing super accessible thrillers to please everyone... he's pretty intentional about the kind of story he wants to tell, and understands that it won't be everyone's cup of tea.

It's perfectly understandable that not everyone is interested about Tyrion's daddy issues or the history of Volantis, but I don't think it means GRRM has lost his touch, more that certain aspects of the story are just more interesting to him than to some readers. In that sense I'd agree he can be a bit self indulgent, but that's fairly common for writers who've enjoyed that degree of success.

With all that said, I'll agree with most that books 1-3 are more satisfying on the whole than 4-5.. but he set an extremely high bar for himself with ASOS. I've really enjoyed all of them immensely.

It's hard really to judge what is 'filler' until we have the complete story. For all we know something that seems boring or unnecessary now could be setting up something later.

[The Last Direwolf]

Ok, so I just finished book 5 after starting the series late last year. I must say that I was a bit disappointed by books 4 and 5 for their very slow plot progress, but it would be unfair to say that I didn't enjoy them. A lot of people seem to say that books 4 and 5 are "filler" books that are merely setting up the finale, which I hope is true. However, a lot of people thought this about Star Wars Episode 1, which many assumed was crap because Lucas had so much good stuff to set up for Episodes 2 & 3, which would then be brilliant. As it turned out, they were all turds of equal magnitude. I personally also thought the same thing about the second Matrix film, where basically nothing happened for the whole film except a bunch of fighting and racing. As it turned out. both the 2nd and the 3rd movies were just crap films. So what's going to happen to ASoIaF? Does anyone reckon that Martin has simply lost his touch, or that the stories have run out of steam? Or is this a deliberate change in direction, as Martin didn't want his books to become known merely page turners? It's also possible that the disjointed way that books 4 and 5 were written (with the whole 5 year gap thing, having to split out the books by location instead of chronologically etc) made them inherently hard work and now they're out of the way Martin can get back on track with book 6. Or, maybe it's just me and actually a lot of people loved books 4 and 5 as much as the first three. Does anyone prefer the style of books 4 and 5 to the previous books? If I had to rate the books, I'd say books 1 - 3 are all five stars, whereas books 4 and 5 are both four stars. What do other people think of them?

I must say that I enjoyed the first 3 a lot more than 4 and 5, but I do believe that they are just fillers to set the scene for tWoW and aDoS. Martin has not lost his touch. Let's think about it - in the next two books we've got an awful lot that's going to go on... Sansa and the Vale will rebel against the weakened Iron Throne and the Riverlords and Northmen who we so love, will get their revenge for Robb and the Red Wedding. Aegon has landed in the Stormlands and stirred up a load of shit at Highgarden. The ironborn are advancing in their conquest from the eastern coast. Dorne is about to involve itself fully in the wars that it has so far kept out of. Stannis might possibly take Winterfell and establish the North as the base of his claim to the Iron Throne. Agents of several parties are converging upon Daenerys and the dragons. The Citadel is about to play it's hand. Cersei and Margaery's trials are coming up. And on top of all of that, we still have the huge problem of the Others!

So, to answer your question, no, Martin is not losing his touch.

[Valkyrja]

Yeah, I was expecting both the battles of Winterfell and Mereen to happen at the end of Dance, and I just felt really underwhelmed when neither occurred. I just felt like both those storylines built and built and then just abruptly cut off.

But maybe I should have read spoilers in advance or something to have lowered my expectations.... :P

Edited to say that I agree, GRRM's writing itself has not diminished. I just find myself growing impatient at the pace of the story at times, but on the whole his writing has been very enjoyable. In Feast, Brienne's chapters really stood out, as did Bran, Jon, and Theon's chapters in Dance. I really can't wait for more. :)

[Dornish Bannerman]

I love all the books, the first season aired here in Norway during winter, and I was hooked after a few episodes. So I bought the five books and after a month and a half of reading I was done. I love them all, though I thought A Feast for Crows was a tad bit dull. Brienne, Jaime and Cersei's storylines were not very interesting to be honest. But the Martell and Greyjoy spiced things up ;). I think A Dance with Dragons is my favorite book in the series so far, though I think The Winds of Winter might have a great chance of taking over the lead spot.

I love the titles of the books, how does GRRM come up with them? They are so suitable and easy, yet hard to figure out.

[Ser Amoc]

Personally, I find Cersei's chapters to be some of the best in the series. It's great just getting inside her head and seeing how crazy/paranoid she really is. It's a nice change of pace from most of the other POV's where the characters are really trying to be noble/honorable.