Why did the ToJ showdown happen?

[ishmael]

This is a very interesting question. On the surface, whether you believe Ashara and Ned loved each other or that she turned to Ned after her dishonoring, Ned and Arthur would have had to have know each other. They would have common ground to find some kind of compromise other than killing each other. Both are very honorable, and put doing the right thing above all. Surely they could have come to some arrangement that was in the best interest of Jon, at lest in the short-term. I am assuming that R+L=J is true for this discussion.

I really think that the ToJ has a lot more going on than we are lead to believe. GRRM has said in the past not to take Ned's fever dream too literally. We really know very little concrete information about the ToJ if you have to question Ned's fever dream. We know he went there. We think he ran into the KG, but with Ned's dream being suspect, we don't know this to be true. We know Lyanna died there. We think(are fairly certain) she had a child there. We know Ned tore it down. But what else do we really know. The information we are given is that Ned and Reed are the only survivors, but who was the they that found Ned holding Lyanna's hand, and what happened to them. Did Ned and Reed kill them to keep them quiet? Why did he tear it down? Why did he take Dawn to SF? He was the victor so he could have kept the spoils, and noone would have given it a second thought.

I'm trying to work out the details on a crazy little theory that may tie several current theories together together through the ToJ. I'm having a hard time with it because we have so few absolutely known facts. About certain characters or events.

[Sasha Steelsong]

But surely Lyanna would have told them that Ned would never let her come to harm?

But I think it comes down to whether they could trust him not to harm Jon not Lyanna. Afterall their primary responsibility is to protect Jon and not his mother. While we know that Ned would never have killed Jon, at the time they might not have, especially if word of the murders of Rhaenys and Aegon had reached them (again we know that was all Tywin's doing but Ned did lead the majority of the host to KL and technically was the guy in charge till Robert got there). Plus there is also the possibility that they viewed Ned declaring Robert king as threat to the King they saw as the rightful one, i.e. they may not have wanted to hand Jon over to someone they believed (rightfully) would not press his claim to the throne.

[Maxpey]

This is a very interesting question. On the surface, whether you believe Ashara and Ned loved each other or that she turned to Ned after her dishonoring, Ned and Arthur would have had to have know each other. They would have common ground to find some kind of compromise other than killing each other. Both are very honorable, and put doing the right thing above all. Surely they could have come to some arrangement that was in the best interest of Jon, at lest in the short-term. I am assuming that R+L=J is true for this discussion.

I really think that the ToJ has a lot more going on than we are lead to believe. GRRM has said in the past not to take Ned's fever dream too literally. We really know very little concrete information about the ToJ if you have to question Ned's fever dream. We know he went there. We think he ran into the KG, but with Ned's dream being suspect, we don't know this to be true. We know Lyanna died there. We think(are fairly certain) she had a child there. We know Ned tore it down. But what else do we really know. The information we are given is that Ned and Reed are the only survivors, but who was the they that found Ned holding Lyanna's hand, and what happened to them. Did Ned and Reed kill them to keep them quiet? Why did he tear it down? Why did he take Dawn to SF? He was the victor so he could have kept the spoils, and noone would have given it a second thought.

I'm trying to work out the details on a crazy little theory that may tie several current theories together together through the ToJ. I'm having a hard time with it because we have so few absolutely known facts. About certain characters or events.

I am curious to know what your crazy theory that ties up other current theories is all about. I hope you post it soon.