Betrayal of the North

[Jaehaerys Sand]

Why do a lot of people think that the North will turn on Stannis if/when Davos brings Rickon back from Skagos? Stannis has done quite a bit for the North. He repelled a wildling invasion, rescued Deepwood Motte from the Ironborn, and seems poised to kill Ramsay Snow and a load of Freys along with him.

If the Northern houses betray him after all of that they can become undead thralls for the Others for all I care about them.

[Jaehaerys Sand]

Hello? Guys?

Don't you ignore me...

[Lan the Clever]

I don't think they will betray him. But I also doubt the North will end the series submissive to another region.

[I'll pay the iron price]

I dont think they will turn on Stannis.

Ned Stark was a supporter of Stannis's claim, many of his men would probably feel the same way.

Stannis aided the knights watch when no-one else would (the wall is respected more by the Northerners than the rest of Westeros)

Robb never wanted the Iron throne he just wanted the Lannisters who killed his father taken down

[Pellaeon]

Bran is their King and Rickon their prince, they see themself as an independant Kingdom and so Stannis is a usurper who want them on their knees, they will fight against all southern trys to rule them

[Jaehaerys Sand]

Bran is their King and Rickon their prince, they see themself as an independant Kingdom and so Stannis is a usurper who want them on their knees, they will fight against all southern trys to rule them

I think the North is more interested in vengence than independance now. Many of their men have been killed in battle, and more lords are held prisoner at the Twins. To help with revenge, Stannis offers around 1,500 extra fighters, his own battlefield experience (especially naval experience), plus money from the Iron Bank.

Plus, I think the North understands independence isn't going to happen. They know declaring it will only bring war. Stannis won't offer it, the Lannisters won't offer it, and Euron won't offer it (though the North would never make a deal with them now). We don't really know Dany's or Aegon's opinions on the matter, but I doubt any of them would allow it. Might as well stick with the guy who helps you.

[Fire Eater]

The Northmen will probably swear their vows before heart trees, and they will find it hard to break their oaths. They would oppose Stannis only if it came to something big, like if Melisandre tracked Bloodraven to the cave of the CotF and decides everyone in the cave should be put to the sword, including the CotF, Meera Reed and Bran, that will cause a split between the queen's men and the Northmen.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Many of them don't know that Bran and Rickon are still alive, or what Robb decreed in his will.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Why do a lot of people think that the North will turn on Stannis if/when Davos brings Rickon back from Skagos? Stannis has done quite a bit for the North. He repelled a wildling invasion, rescued Deepwood Motte from the Ironborn, and seems poised to kill Ramsay Snow and a load of Freys along with him. If the Northern houses betray him after all of that they can become undead thralls for the Others for all I care about them.

He did also sell Ned up shit creek somewhat.

[David C. Hunter]

Ned Stark is dead. The Young Wolf is dead. The North went to war to declare independence from Southron influence. Its no longer about "What would Ned do?"

This is about independence as Lady Mormount said, there is only one King and his name is 'Stark!" She says this while walking in Stannis' camp. The North do not fear the South and despite Stannis' great qualities he is a southerner. They will kill him because if it is found out that Rickon, Bran, or Jon are declared King of the North what do you think Stannis is gonna do? Agree with them? He will call them traitors and they will destory his army and throw his intestines on a heart tree. I like Stannis a lot but it doesnt look good for him unless he learns to compromise.

[Pellaeon]

He will call them traitors and they will destory his army and throw his intestines on a heart tree. I like Stannis a lot but it doesnt look good for him unless he learns to compromise.

Before or after they nailed Melissandre to a hearttree?

[Ser Wun Wun]

I disagree with your assertion that not supporting Stannis would be a "betrayal". None of the Northern lords have actually taken Stannis for their king (save Arnolf Karstark, who did betray him). At the moment the mountain clans and a few other Northmen fight with Stannis against a common enemy, but not for him. The distinction is important.

Only Lord Manderly made the promise to take Stannis as his king if Davos brought Rickon back. The rest of the North is not bound by that promise. Also, suppose Lord Manderly died before Davos makes it back with Rickon, is his heir still bound by that promise?

Looming over all this is the fact that the North is likely about to be attacked by the Others, so I don't think they are going to be in any position to be marching south to help Stannis claim the throne. In fact, I think it would be irresponsible of Stannis to take them south, when they are needed more in the North at the moment.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Only Lord Manderly made the promise to take Stannis as his king if Davos brought Rickon back. The rest of the North is not bound by that promise. Also, suppose Lord Manderly died before Davos makes it back with Rickon, is his heir still bound by that promise?

And even the Manderly promise is sketchy. Wyman said he'd swear fealty to Stannis if Davos smuggled back his "liege lord." Except that he knows both boys survived and would surely know which one was older. He tells Davos to go after Rickon, but strictly speaking, Rickon is not the rightful liege lord of Winterfell — Bran is. Is it deliberate word play? Is Wyman writing off Bran because he's a cripple? Does he think Bran must have died? Wyman doesn't necessarily need the oldest surviving Stark son to trump the Boltons, just a surviving Stark son. But that in and of itself doesn't put Rickon ahead of Bran in the succession.

Are we going to see a case where Davos bring Rickon back and asks for Manderly's fealty, and Wyman says, "Well I said to smuggle back my liege lord, who just so happens to be Bran, not Rickon, Stark. But thanks for Rickon all the same, I'll take him off your hands"?

[Last Eye of Bloodraven]

Manderly asks for Rickon because he's the one Wex followed, he doesn't know where Bran is.

Seeing how proud he is of his granddaughter remembering the "Wolf's Den Oath" (not sure about the name), he strikes me as someone who would keep his word.

If he gets Rickon and make it know to the rest of the north, he is a good position to crush the Boltons :drool: and help Stannis.

Much will depend on Davos coming back with Rickon and the timing for this information to reach Stannis and Wyman.

[SerMixalot]

1st u assume Rickon returns to Stannis.

That and Stannis will expect the north to bend the knee, something the north may not want to do at this point having had a taste of independance

[Burning down the House]

Why do a lot of people think that the North will turn on Stannis if/when Davos brings Rickon back from Skagos? Stannis has done quite a bit for the North. He repelled a wildling invasion, rescued Deepwood Motte from the Ironborn, and seems poised to kill Ramsay Snow and a load of Freys along with him. If the Northern houses betray him after all of that they can become undead thralls for the Others for all I care about them.

Stannis does not do these things out of the goodness of his heart. He does these things in the hopes of win northerners to his cause. The north however is under no obligation to support Stannis.

[Blue-eyed Onion]

Agree with the OP: if they betray the deserve anihilation not just for the word breaking but for major stupidity. I'll say it again for those that seem to want an 'indepedent north' with desperation; winter's come, reserves are meager, Others beyond the wall, wildlings in the north, ironborn still in control of northern regions, a possible boy-king (read: inexperienced, weak and under control of some other player like Manderly, which means division, disagreements and possibly various attempts to control the boy king by other players, Tommen in KL, anyone?), and lastly, Stannis himself right there in their backyard (so betraying him possibly means more waste of precious little resources in destroying his army). So considering all that, it would be majorly stupid to be playing the king game again (specially the way the first one 'ended' - technically it's consequences are still there; namely Roose and Ramsay Bolton on Winterfell), and it would be, IMO, a direct contradiction of that northern premise of 'staying together and for one another for survival when winter comes', specially this winter.

[Jaehaerys Sand]

This is about independence as Lady Mormount said, there is only one King and his name is 'Stark!" She says this while walking in Stannis' camp.

No, she says this in a letter. The fact that she is walking in Stannis's camp seems to suggest she took it back.

He will call them traitors and they will destory his army and throw his intestines on a heart tree.

Why? They would half of their barely existant army trying to kill Stannis. Plus, as I said before, I think the Red Wedding knocked some sense into them.

[tze]

They would half of their barely existant army trying to kill Stannis.

No, they wouldn't. Stannis's southern forces are being obliterated in the snow, the Northmen aren't. The latter outnumbered the former by a healthy margin when the march started, and now? It's not even a contest. If the Northmen turn on Stannis, they could obliterate him quite easily.

Plus, as I said before, I think the Red Wedding knocked some sense into them.

I think the Red Wedding made them more determined than ever.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Why do a lot of people think that the North will turn on Stannis if/when Davos brings Rickon back from Skagos? Stannis has done quite a bit for the North. He repelled a wildling invasion, rescued Deepwood Motte from the Ironborn, and seems poised to kill Ramsay Snow and a load of Freys along with him. If the Northern houses betray him after all of that they can become undead thralls for the Others for all I care about them.

The North Remembers.

ETA: I have always wanted an excuse to say that...hehe...