How would you rate episode 208?

[Howdyphillip]

while the critics are following the series I wouldn't say its universally loved. Its tracked and recapped because it has a fanatical following, but I haven't seen a critic yet who has put it at the top of the tv must see list (typically reserved for Parks and Rec, Community, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etc...). And btw the ratings are good, but not phenominal. True Blood scores much higher for HBO. And GOT has pretty much flatlined, while most successful HBO series typically grow throughout the season. We should see a spike for the last two episodes, but they could be better.

First of all, I didn't highlight the first part of your post, but I just wanted you to know that I thought it was eloquently put as for some of the reasons that you question the writing in places. I make note and compare as well, and I do believe that some of the changes aren't as good as what I read in the books. The Bran story arc is one of them.

That said, This TV series IS universally loved by critics and audiences alike. Not only is it the highest rated scripted show on a cable channel right now, but it has also been showered in awards. A show doesn't win Emmys and Golden Globes without being an incredible hit with the critics. I have personally seen hundreds of critics put it as the finest show on TV over the shows that you named.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/top-10-tv-week-20-2012-article-1.1079108?localLinksEnabled=false

NY times giving the highest scripted episodic television ranking on the best shows on TV this week.

[Eira Seren]

lol with weasel soup. that scene is completely irrelevant. did any one of you actually watch the show? robb stark's army is all together, there is no separate part of the army commanded by bolton who could come over and take harrenhall. since no one can take harenhall (which they would anyway soon abandon next season), there is no point in lannisters losing control over it. hence there is no need for stupid weasel soup. arya did what she needed to do this season, and that was to escape from the lannisters. mission accomplished. and btw, entire arya's storyline in ACOK actually makes much more sense in the tv show compared to the book original. it was too convulted with her being servant for the lannisters, then orchestrating coupe to take over the castle, then being cupbearer for bolton, then never revealing her identity to northerners, then killing her own allied soldier (I know that bolton was already traitor at the time, but she did not know that) to escape. honestly it was a mess. it is easier to follow what is going on this way, you know, just like it should be in a freaking TV show.

Her storyline is easier to follow, maybe, but that's because it's not a very good storyline. Her narrative has been in stasis since episode 4. All those Tywin scenes? Nothing happened, in a thematic sense, for her character. Great writing and acting exercises, but not actually important. The complicated narrative at Harrenhal in the novels is far more interesting and has a great deal of impact on Arya's development.

i agree somewhat that the simplification of the Harrenhall storyline is easier to follow. however, is it necessary to axe all the complication? do we feel that way because it is tv (and therefore entertainment, and should not be at all complicated because simple is nice and doesn't require anything of the viewers?) i recall lots of twists and turns in season 1 that worked very well, and kept the suspense and tension, something i think i'm missing this season. there are plenty of opportunities, they just seem to slip away. for instance, do any of us think that Dany would dither around while someone has her dragons? maybe season 1 Dany, who is more careful, waits and plans, knowing how powerless she is (though is also sometimes impusive). But not this season's character. Whenever she doesn't get the answer she wants, she's all up in people's faces, spouting some nonsense about blood and fire. do we buy that maybe she is finally starting to learn? (btw, not sure if this is the kind of 'complication' i'm looking for as a viewer). wonder what will occur in subsequent seasons when the writers encounter what GRRM calls his problem of the "Meerenese Knot." But perhaps they can sort that out for us.

you don't seriously expect a 10-year old girl to slid someone's throat in cold blood in american TV show do you? her character will have plenty of time to become darker in 3rd season when she is a bit older, and when she learns about all deaths in her family. . . .

well, actually. . . we saw a 10 year old boy get shoved out a tower window at the end of S1E1. We saw an adolescent point a crossbow at a whore and command her to sadistically beat another woman. Arya begins the book series at 9. The children's ages have been advanced for the show, and Arya is older than showBran (he's 10), making her an adolescent in the show. She has also already lost those close to her, including family: Nymeria, Mycah, Lady, Jory, Syrio, her father, Yoren. She's seen a kid roughly her own age killed out of hand by soldiers on the road, and she's also stabbed at least one boy in season 1. Not to mention she's been naming names. . . So yes, maybe I did rather expect it.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Eira Seren

[tripleseq]

Valar Morghulis is not tied to Arya.

But let's just say Jaquen turns back after Arya, to give her the coin, to tell her the words. Wouldn't this be stupid?!

Why would he do that? Why would he care? He paid his debt, he owes her nothing. What? Is he in love with her? Does he feel the need to protect her? Why would he return?

If he does feel the need to protect her, why not take her home or to her brother? Why just give her a coin and tell her 2 words?

It makes no sense that he would do that.

It does make sense that he would do that. She hasn't taken the name back yet.

[tripleseq]

The last episode of the season is titled "Valar Morghulis." I don't think Jaqen is done just yet. I liked Arya's scenes with Tywin, and I didn't mind the changes in her storyline until we get to Amory Lorch's over the top death scene. I'm not happy about them cutting out Weasel soup, but I understand why they cut it. The fact that Roose Bolton and Vargo Hoat held Harrenhal at some point in the books are ultimately meaningless to the final outcome of the story, so they just skip over it to Clegane having it from then on. I still think/hope they'll have Vargo Hoat next season. He and the Bloody Mummers just seem too important to be done away with.

Agreed, Valar Morghulis is too big to cut out especially when they have a episode named that. I'm hoping that the reason we haven't seen Ramsay Bolton is because Cillian Murphy will be playing him but that is a stretch, not because Cillian is too expensive for this show, but because of the size of Ramsay's role. Maybe Cillian will head home to spend some time with family and film this thing :) ... fingers crossed.

[summer_stark]

First of all, I didn't highlight the first part of your post, but I just wanted you to know that I thought it was eloquently put as for some of the reasons that you question the writing in places. I make note and compare as well, and I do believe that some of the changes aren't as good as what I read in the books. The Bran story arc is one of them. That said, This TV series IS universally loved by critics and audiences alike. Not only is it the highest rated scripted show on a cable channel right now, but it has also been showered in awards. A show doesn't win Emmys and Golden Globes without being an incredible hit with the critics. I have personally seen hundreds of critics put it as the finest show on TV over the shows that you named. http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/top-10-tv-week-20-2012-article-1.1079108?localLinksEnabled=false NY times giving the highest scripted episodic television ranking on the best shows on TV this week.

it's definitely not universally loved by critics, especially not by the New York Times (see e.g., http://tv.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/arts/television/game-of-thrones-on-hbo.html). The link you gave us was the NY Daily News -- not the NYT by a long shot. the NYT has been anti GOT from day one -- many critics and viewers love it (me included), but saying it is universally loved is just false -- to be universally loved is to be loved by all -- nothing is universally loved. universally means by everyone in every case. just sayin...

[Vic-tarion Rattlehead]

I'd gave it 8 - a plausible episode, not a great one, but not something outraging either.

My 20 cents summary:

1. Rorge and Biter are just LAME! They should be the scariest monsters of the ACOK, but they are just average bully and his moronic sidekick. No Weasel Soup for you, also.
   
2. Jaime escapes before ASOS... OK fine, I can live with this - at least his conversations with Brienne are laughable.
   
3. Rattleshirt was styled according to the book, no complains here.
   
4. I think Hot Pie is the best actor out of the Harrenhall trio (Arya/Gendry/HP)... And once again - the guy who's playing Ser Gregor is SO wrong for his character.
   
5. Tyrion and Bronn are continuing their Stoogies show - always there to save the day!
   
6. All this Talysa stuff is just so unnecessary - even a viewer with an IQ of Hodor will understand by now that she is Jaine Westerling, so why giving her SOOOOOO much screentime?
   
7. And last one bit - Theon considering giving money to the man whose children he just butchered... :ack:
   

[rmholt]

! Season 1 was awesome. It was at least 10 times better than this one. Judging from the point of view of a book reader.

GoT was much simpler and straightforward. A lot more going on and a set up for Blackwater and for the next book, MHO

[rmholt]

Jaqen and Arya will need to have one more scene, so Arya can unsay his name. I expect we'll see the coin and the face change then...we'd better or Arya's story will go 100% off the tracks. I didn't like the lead up to naming A man for death. It shouldn't have been Jaqen refusing to kill Tywin, regardless of the reason. 7/10

Jaqen would have killed Tywin - but he couldnt do it in time to stop him from stoppiing Robb so Arya made the better choice.

[TheRiderThatMounts]

The fact that Roose Bolton and Vargo Hoat held Harrenhal at some point in the books are ultimately meaningless

I hope you all realize that the fact that Bolton's army was separated from Robb's led to him betraying the Starks.

In Harrenhall Bolton was KING! With Robb he is just another lord. In Harrenhall he answered to no one. With Robb it would be really hard for him to send messages and communicate with the Lannisters. Bolton taking Harrenhall was the key to him betraying the Starks.

I don't get the producers. I feel they're making fun of us, making fun of the books.

Do they want to create their own unique show? Maybe they want to make something original. I don't get them.

Why kill Irri when Doreah dies in the books?

Why kill Rhakaro when he could have easily been replaced. The book clearely says that the guy changes, grows taller and brawnier. I understand the actor left for another movie, but why kill of the character?

Didn't the same thing happen to Gregor Clegane? And they just replaced the actor. What the hell?!

Why create all this drama with Daeneris? The things she did in the books were supposed to show us how she evolves from a beggar queen to a conqueror. Was dragonnapping really necessary?

Why make Robb and Jon look childish when these two characters mature in the second book, becoming men?!

Why make Tywin Lannister look like an old grandfather?

Where is the Greatjon?!

Why kill the Tickler?

Where are Jojen and Meera?

And, finally, why is Rickard Karstark swearing by the father?(this gives me headaches)

I feel like the producers are giving me a huge FU! Am I the only one?

[Lanny92]

8/10 because they've finally confirmed that Talia is really Talia. I was hoping she was Jeyne pretending to be a Volantis girl, but no... I liked the scenes with Tyrion and that one with Stannis and they also finished that stryline with Arya and Tywin being friends. The rest was ok, some parts even better. They've kept stalling important moments for the finale it seems. Battle of Blackwater as a shocking part, just like the Ned episode in season 1. So it seems they are gonna end this season with either Dany at the House of the Undying, which I hope they don't or the strange events that await the North, Winterfell and beyond the Wall (book readers know what I mean).

[Drogon's Personal Trainer]

So it seems they are gonna end this season with either Dany at the House of the Undying, which I hope they don't or the strange events that await the North, Winterfell and beyond the Wall (book readers know what I mean).

Hmm - dunno about that. We ended series 1 with the birth of Drogon and sibs. It could be pretty spectacular to end this one with a dragon actually burning down a whole building, thus proving how destructive and dangerous these creatures are going to be - a threat hanging over everything. Why wouldn't they go for that in the series? She's been focusing on her dragons every time we've seen her. I can't imagine the producers will pass up on the chance of showing this - but, again, who can say what they choose to include or leave out.

Even so the 'Ice' scenes first with the cliffhanger at the Wall, followed by the 'Fire' of Dany's dragons again. Makes sense.

[WildlingGirl]

Gave it a 7, but in retrospect I think I got annoyed with this episode because I watched it right after 207 which I liked even more on rewatch.

Should have been a 9 maybe. Even Robb and Talisa's scene is better than Jeyne's seduction in the books. Tyrion and Cersei and the wrong whore, Tywin and Arya, Jaqen and Arya, Davos and Stannis, Asha/Yara and Theon, Robb and Catelyn, Jaime and Brienne, the Starks in the crypt, Jon/Ygritte/Lord O' Bones/Qhorin... all scenes nailed and highly riveting. Daenerys and Jorah also move towards where they need to go, even at a glacial pace. Can't wait to see Doreah turn up with Drogon if speculating viewers have it right!!

Ok, now I need to rewatch 208 as well and NOT just before Blackwater :dunno:

[Howdyphillip]

it's definitely not universally loved by critics, especially not by the New York Times (see e.g., http://tv.nytimes.co...nes-on-hbo.html). The link you gave us was the NY Daily News -- not the NYT by a long shot. the NYT has been anti GOT from day one -- many critics and viewers love it (me included), but saying it is universally loved is just false -- to be universally loved is to be loved by all -- nothing is universally loved. universally means by everyone in every case. just sayin...

Yes, I had a brain fart and said the Times instead of the Daily News, and I made a generalization that all critics loved the show. I will take that back, and say the vast majority of the critics love this show. My point here is that we, as ASoIF fans have an incredible television show to watch. As a lifelong fan of fantasy in particular, this show is unparallelled in acclaim, and rightly so. I watch A list actors give emmy and golden globe performances. I then come into the forum, and I read about how the show is "terrible", and all of the characters have been "ruined".

If you are reading this, the next time you want to say how bad this show is, go and read the fabulous works of Jim Baker called the Dresden Files. Right after you finish that incredible series, watch the adaptation of that for the sci fi channel. You can use the terms "terrible" and "ruined" for that.

I am not talking here about the people who just point out things that they didn't like in an episode. I myself have little bits every week that may or may not make me want to turn a table over. I am talking about the people who have nothing to say but how horrible this show is, and incessantly whine for thread upon thread about how the whole thing if full of garbage because Lommy only said the word yield once instead of six or seven times like in the books.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Howdyphillip

[Nathaniel Hawke]

A solid 8. Could have a few improvements, but I just liked the two previous ones more.

Oh, and I am sure that all those fine fans who complain would do a better work if they had to adapt the series from the books. Too bad their unmatched talent of correction and adding improvements is wasted here.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Oh, and I am sure that all those fine fans who complain would do a better work if they had to adapt the series from the books. Too bad their unmatched talent of correction and adding improvements is wasted here.

Right, of course. No criticism can be forthcoming from us laypeople. How dare we have the gall to view a piece of drama with a critical eye.

[Nathaniel Hawke]

Right, of course. No criticism can be forthcoming from us laypeople. How dare we have the gall to view a piece of drama with a critical eye.

Actually, it's the constructive criticism that's lacking. Most posts are mere complaints of what they wanted to see, and didn't.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Actually, it's the constructive criticism that's lacking. Most posts are mere complaints of what they wanted to see, and didn't.

Oh sorry I must have missed that clear differentiation in your original post.

[Nathaniel Hawke]

Oh sorry I must have missed that clear differentiation in your original post.

Purists are known for their lack of irony-senses.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Purists are known for their lack of irony-senses.

Ah, the old "purist" shtick. Because criticising the fact that Osha walked past Theon and Dagmer in broad daylight is being a book purist. Silly me.

[legba11]

4/10, my lowest rating ever. A very dull, pointless episode. Big loss in points for replacing Weasel Soup with an incredibly bland escape from Harrenhal (I am still hoping Arya has to get her hands dirty in Ep10, it would lose more points if that is gone too). The two Robb/ Not-Jeyne scenes were just long, boring stories that had me looking for something to play with while I "watched" it. I have never done that on Game of Thrones before.

There was still quality acting and a few of the scenes were good/great scenes, but NOTHING HAPPENED. And this is basically two weeks of nothing now that they hit the reset button on Bran in Winterfell. I can't believe we had to rush through Renly/Stannis to just through in two episodes where viewers would hardly need to see "What happened last week" if they missed them.

This criticism goes right to D&D, they outline the season and they wrote these two subpar episodes. I hope they aren't becoming fatigued with the show.