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Most horrible person in Westeros


StannisandDaeny

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Hey, he so far beat Roose, Craster and Tywin amongst others, give the old man some credit! ;)

@ Scorpion: it doesn't make him better, indeed. That's why I said I'm not defending him (hell no!). ASOIAF just happens to offer some really tough competition, just look at the sheer number of names ^__^ It just changes my perception of him and the way I feel reading his scenes. I'm just not that impressed by Ramsay because he can only pick on the weak and nothing else. Qyburn, Lyn and Gregor seem like they can pretty much fuck *everyone* up in worse ways (trust me, they would make Ramsay cry if you left them alone with any of them for 5 minutes) and their considerable titles and positions of power as well as the trust they had from high-ranked lords and ladies makes Westeros a much darker place to me than Ramsay who is more run-off-the-mill-although-exxagerated-with-some-added-flavour to me... I also think he gets a lot of votes because he's the biggest 'current' bad guy and remains fresher in our memory. Tywin on the other hand might get fewer votes because he's dead and people no longer feel so strongly about him. As I said though I think his first place is well-deserved when you look at it on a broader scale... I'm *not* defending him.

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Varamyr is another possible nominee for one of the worst although I wouldn't put him near the top. I found ADWD's prologue to be really creepy on reread.

"Whenever he desired a woman he'd sent his shadowcat to stalk her, and whatever girl he'd cast his eye upon would follow meekly to his bed. Some came weeping, aye, but still they came..."

Then there's what he did to Haggon and Thistle.

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I'm not going to defend Ramsay (hell no!), but the reason I left him off the list was because I don't find him as scary as the others, sickening, rather - It's partially because I'm pretty sure he's a real coward on the inside who's easily broken when he's actually in danger, so I didn't find him sufficiently 'formidable' (in lack of a better word) for the top 3. But I respect everyone who puts the soab in his list, eh eh. We all have different standards for judging them - I tend to go with the people I find most sinister, scary and 'creative' in their evilness. @ Qorin: good call, Craster does deserve some points for the final tally.
I find Ramsay quite creative !

My top :

1 - Ramsay

2 - Gregor

3 - a tigh between Joffrey and Vargo. I guess Joffrey gets extra-points because of his extreme youth :)

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Just so I get this right - you feel the same about Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent as well then? You might dislike Randyl Tarly as well - remember his speech to Brienne!

mine was obviously half a provocation..but only half.

Gerold Hightower,Jon Darry (no one ever remember Jon Darry. poor dude), Oswell Whent, Arthur Dayne, even Barristan..i mean, i've to go back and read, but the two i'm sure we have IMAGES of precise past moments are Jon Darry (during Aerys' rape of his Queen) and Gerold Hightower (during Rickard Karstark's burning disappareance).

The problem is not with they being honorable scum. The problem is that these scum are seen like 'hero', 'shining knights' and things like that.

At least Randyll Tarly, who's an horrible person with medieval mentality (medieval even for Westerosi standards :)) is seen just like a great commander, but not like an example of chivalry, so i care the less for his educational methods or the rapes-justify mentality. but i cannot understand why Meryn Trant are a bad guy ('cause he beats a lovely girl) and Jon Darry & Gerold Hightower are not (well, i actually can understand. they were cool, great fighters. Meryn Trant is a little shit. But they're justifications with they're coscience are the same).

in the end, i'm unable to 'hate' people like Ramsay, or Roose, or Gregor, 'cause they sociopaths. very different kind of sociopaths (and Qyburn is even another completely different kind of) but i need someone more 'human' to hate. like Cersei, or Robert, or Tywin, or even Theon (that i don't hate at all..but i understand the hate. he's not a psycho, he made his choices, and his choices were obscene) :)

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Good! We need different standards and opinions or we'd all be voting for the same 3 guys and keeping all but 3 characters out of their well-deserved share of the points. Some people are more appalled by rapists while others simply give their points to the guys with the highest kill count... and I go for the scariest, and that makes for a good competition ^^

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Some people are more appalled by rapists while others simply give their points to the guys with the highest kill count... and I go for the scariest, and that makes for a good competition ^^

yep, i completely agreed with your 'scary ranking'. the kind of psycho that Qyburn is a lot more creepy (a 'good-hearted' sociopath, not sadist, who doesn't NEED to hurt the other because his nature drives him into that stuff, but that is capable of the most aberrant actions just to achieve his scientific purposes. I can't hate him, but surely he's the one that umanly scares me the most)

in the same way, Gregor scares me as a human being way more than Ramsay. Ramsay is 'easy stuff' psycologically (<- probably there must be an "H" somewhere. i don't speak english) . He's full of rage, he's a sadist, he has a revenge desire against the world and some sort of bastard-inferiority-complex. Gregor seems way more inhuman. ataraxic, no real feelings, kind of an undead robot :P

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yep, i completely agreed with your 'scary ranking'. the kind of psycho that Qyburn is a lot more creepy (a 'good-hearted' sociopath, not sadist, who doesn't NEED to hurt the other because his nature drives him into that stuff, but that is capable of the most aberrant actions just to achieve his scientific purposes. I can't hate him, but surely he's the one that umanly scares me the most) in the same way, Gregor scares me as a human being way more than Ramsay. Ramsay is 'easy stuff' psycologically (<- probably there must be an "H" somewhere. i don't speak english) . He's full of rage, he's a sadist, he has a revenge desire against the world and some sort of bastard-inferiority-complex. Gregor seems way more inhuman. ataraxic, no real feelings, kind of an undead robot :P

It is actually why Ramsay scares me the most. His psychological games. He destroyed a human being piece by piece and than put him together as he liked to create some sick grotesque. Gregor is just killing machine Ramsay is something much more troubling. Nor your life, nor you body nor your soul is safe from him.

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I agree as well, StannisandDaeny. The person with the highest scary quotient for me is Euron. Everyone who knows him is petrified of him, but what is it that everyone is afraid of? His creep factor is very high. What's really under that patch?

Ramsey, Gregor, Joffrey...just your average, run-of-the-mill deviants. Euron is EVIL.

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It is actually why Ramsay scares me the most. His psychological games. He destroyed a human being piece by piece and than put him together as he liked to create some sick grotesque. Gregor is just killing machine Ramsay is something much more troubling. Nor your life, nor you body nor your soul is safe from him.

well, no doubt he's more dangerous 'for our integrity'..so yep, if i've to choose who i wanna spend a dinner, i'd go with Gregor. but from a 'psicological' view, (i don't found the right word in english..) Qyburn and Gregor are more scary. I can UNDERSTAND Ramsay. Not understand the horrible things he does, but i can understand his crazyness. Is an 'easy' crazyness. On the other side, Qyburn could really be a good grampa. If he'd discover a non-torturing way to achieve the scientific knowledge he search, he will not kill anyone anymore. He IS capable of kindness. He doesn't enjoy torturing women, he just think that his studies are more important than the life ot his guinea pigs. Is a more creepy morality, for me :)

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In addition to all the scum mentioned previously, I'd like to include Grand Maester Pycelle in this list because of the following:-

a.when Sansa was first accused of her father's 'treachery' he (cowardly says):-

"A child born of traitor's seed will find that betrayal comes naturally to her," said Grand Maester Pycelle. "She is a sweet thing now, but in ten years, who can say what treasons she may hatch?" (GOT)

b. after her father's murder when she stayed in her room grieving he visited:-

"Once Grand Maester Pycelle came with a box of flasks and bottles to ask if she were ill. He felt her brow, made her undress, and touched her all over while her bedmaid held her down." (GOT)

so, you might think he's a doctor so that's okay, but if you read this in the context of the next quote

c. when Tyrion accosted GM Pycelle in his bedroom at night

"When Timett ripped the heavy curtains off the bed, the naked serving girl stared up at with wide white eyes. She cringed away from Shagga...The old man was as naked as the girl..."(ACoK)

I think he's a child molester who assaulted 11yo Sansa under the pretext of doctoring her while her bedmaid held her down. He is also the doctor for Myrcella and Queen Margaery and her cousins (ugh, ugh, ugh).

He must die and as painfully as possible.

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Gregor Clegane, Little Finger, Vargo Hoat, Biter, Rorge, Slavers of Astapor, Boltons and least we for get the Freys ( Walder,Black Walder, Lothar ) and the guilty rest. Cersei for giving innocent women to Dr. Gregorstein.
cersei for everything
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Is Craster not in the running because he's dead or something? This is the guy that if he's not banging his daughters he's beating them and takes his infant sons out into the snows to die of exposure unless an animal finds them first. Unless of course the Others are actually swinging by to pick them up but I'm not finding that any kind of improvement. And these are just the things we know of. God only knows what Craster would consider bad enough to keep hidden away.

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There's just too many horrible people to choose from! I would have trouble narrowing it down to a top 10! Littlefinger, Varys, Tywin, Ramsay, Craster, Walder Frey, Black Walder, Euron, Victario, Vargo Hoat, all the Bloody Mummers, Gregor Clegane, and that's just off the top of my head. That doesn't even cover Qyburn the necromancer, the horrible people from Essos, and god knows who else.

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In addition to all the scum I think he's a child molester who assaulted 11yo Sansa under the pretext of doctoring her while her bedmaid held her down. He is also the doctor for Myrcella and Queen Margaery and her cousins (ugh, ugh, ugh). He must die and as painfully as possible.

I think you raise an interesting point, but I still favour the doctor hypothesis. In the real world, I'd imagine plenty of doctors perform inspections, then go home and sleep with their wives or girlfriends (or in Pycelle's case, bedwarmers). Also, we've never seen him sleaze onto Sansa, have we? He's not exactly into Humbert Humbert style seduction.

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