Was Ned's honor really his downfall?

[Menos Grande]

And in truth, is downfall was Littlefinger and Sansa, if she hasn't told everything about her leving Cersei wouldn't know when to strike...

What other choice Ned had? He had to trust Littlefinger to be true to his cause.. alone he would never have an army to hold the throne, especialy the gold cloacks, with them to support him nobody could say he was wrong.

And he did had the latter from Robert that should protect him and his family.. all small council saw that it was a true latter from Robert.

[The Frosted King]

Thanks, I definitely misunderstood where you were going with the theory. What then do you think of his next dishonor, where he turns on his own principles and made the false confession of his crimes? Do you think there was any moment where he could have turned the situation around or was he simply doomed? I like what Martin did with Ned's arc as the tragic hero, because he presents a man whose survival system is based on this strong sense of honor, a clear definition of right and wrong. Ned's thrown into situations with people who see the world in much murkier colors. Yet, he still tries to maintain this sense of honor and forthrightness even when the players around him start to show they won't play the game in a clear cut way. When Ned made the false confession, that's where I saw him weaken and abandon the honor that he had always held. Before his real death, it's almost like a metaphorical death; an end to the high minded principles that helped him through life. Then it became just about baser needs; survival, an action completely against his nature. Yet look at why he told that lie: for the sake of his children. Who wouldn't choose life at all costs? Martin's also given Ned this wonderful backstory that makes you think you know exactly how he's going to act in every situation; each action defined by his moral code. It's why he was angry when Robert wasn't horrified at the deaths of Rhaenys and Aegon (killing innocent children is wrong), why he kept whatever family secret Lyanna held him to and why he wouldn't speak of Jon's mother no matter how many times Cat must have asked or accused (loyalty to family is paramount, even over friendship or even matrimonial bonds). All of this serves to humanize him, despite his minded-principles. I felt shattered for him when he chose to turn from them, to offer up that lie even for the sake of survival. The fact that he can't stay true to who he was at the very end could mean he'd reached that breaking point, the point where he could have shed all that he was just to survive on the Wall or in obscurity. In a way, I love the fact that Joffrey's order to Illyn Payne prevented a further betrayal or downward spiral from ever happening. It's why I keep Ned Stark in my head as the ultimate fatal, flawed hero.

I never got the impression Ned wanted the Wall. I always got the feeling that Ned wanted to spare his daughter from losing her head.

Eddard wasn't afraid to die, but he lied to spare his daughter that fate.

[Emphasis]

I believe as a king; honor is good. In my opinion, Ned would have made a great king. I think It's the kings underlings that must do unhonorable things in order to keep things in check.

And yes, I think Ned's honor was his downfall. In Ned's defense, he truly believed Robert's last wish would protect him- as I think most of us would have.

As soon as he figured otherwise, he should have done what he needed in order to be there for his children... and 'fight another day' so to speak. But we all know this is not Ned.

[The hairy bear]

Well, that and Sansa betraying his plans to Cersie played into it.

And in truth, is downfall was Littlefinger and Sansa, if she hasn't told everything about her leving Cersei wouldn't know when to strike...

People overstate Sansa's role in Eddard's downfall. Wounded Robert is brought at King's Landing at night (Eddard is already sleeping). During that night, Renly flees the city and Eddard asks Littlefinger to get the support of the City Watch.

At morning, Aya and Sansa are told that they have to leave. And then Sansa tells Cersei that they plan to leave. But what could have Sansa told Cersei that she didn't knew? Eddard had told Cersei at the godswood some days before that he knew her secret and he intended to act against him, and most importantly, Littlefinger had already betrayed Ned to the Lannisters!

Whatever Sansa told Cersei, it had no impact at all in the process.

Robert's death has nothing to do with luck.

Cersei's plan for killing Robert was to have Lancel to give him wine. Robert could have fallen asleep, could have found a piglet, could have killed the boar, could have received a non mortal wound,... She was really lucky that her improvised plan succeded. And if Robert came back, she was doomed.

Really: Eddard was very close to "win".

A warrior knows to always choose the battleground to gain the advantage. Sure, he was on their turf, but "not knowing the rules" is a flimsy excuse for playing poorly.

That's why Eddard wanted to stay in the North. But he was forced to fight in as an unfavorable ground as there could be, and still got to stand a fight and be close to victory. Kudos to him.

[Djinn]

He was dragged into a situation and a role which he very ill-qualified. He, like Stannis, Mace, Robb, Edmore, Mace, Barristan are simply not morally flexible enough or intelligent enough to be Hand. If only Robert had picked Hodor!

[stylishman]

He was dragged into a situation and a role which he very ill-qualified. He, like Stannis, Mace, Robb, Edmore, Mace, Barristan are simply not morally flexible enough or intelligent enough to be Hand. If only Robert had picked Hodor!

Dont forget Mace.