[Book Spoilers] Sansa and Tyrion

[1234567]

I guess the problem with focusing on Tyrion's less than noble motivations would involve writing Tyrion in a negative (or even less than 100% positive) light, and the writers have shown themselves extremely reluctant to do that to date (weirdly, since gray/dark-gray protagonists are all the rage these days: Don Draper from Mad Men, Walter White on Breaking Bad, etc. etc.). I know they have to start doing it at some point if they want to stick to the books, as Tyrion's actions at the end of ASOS (murdering Shae and Tywin) are going to require it, but their pattern in the previous two seasons is not super reassuring.

It really is a shame. Peter Dinklage is a fantastic actor and really could have made a great central character, but with a dark side. Seeing that conflict of character would have been fantastic. Instead he is a bit of a cardboard cut out good guy with almost no grey at all.

Given the last two seasons, I would almost suspect that Tyrion does not end up killing Shae. Or if he does, it is because they make Shae into fatal attraction style crazy jealous woman.

This might be a vain hope, but I really, really hope the whole business of bedding is excised from the show.

Sadly I think they will include it, plus make Joff very publicly tell the room he intends to sleep with Sansa to make Tyrion again seem like her rescuer. From the Tyrion still it seems Sansa will refuse to kneel to kiss him (as they seem to have dispensed with cloaks) and from the look on his face it seems they will play up the sympathy for Tyrion angle, not the forced soon to be raped as far as she thinks prisoner. Even worse, by building up sympathy that was never there in ACOK, it will come off as he married her to protect her, not the Land grab that it was.

Also, while in one way it makes sense to replace Willas with Loras, it will make Sansa look worse as it will seem like the Loras match is even more of a dupe, him being gay and Tyrion is even more of a hero.

[Newstar]

It really is a shame. Peter Dinklage is a fantastic actor and really could have made a great central character, but with a dark side. Seeing that conflict of character would have been fantastic. Instead he is a bit of a cardboard cut out good guy with almost no grey at all.

I don't really get it. What's wrong with some moral ambiguity? I think that Dinklage is such a charismatic actor that even if the writers muddied up his morals a little, viewers would still be rabid admirers. Besides, viewers are more inclined to like and root for morally ambiguous or even outright villainous or sociopathic characters if they get all the good lines: Sawyer and Ben Linus from LOST, Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Damon from The Vampire Diaries, Gaius Baltar from the Battlestar Galactica reboot, Logan Echolls from Veronica Mars, Sark from Alias, and so on and so forth. So I guess I have trouble believing that the writers are "afraid" of viewers not liking Tyrion if they depict his less lovely qualities. I think it's more that the writers/showrunners are Tyrion fanboys and that's why Tyrion comes off as a much nicer, more sympathetic guy, since that's how they perceive him. Since he really only starts his downward spiral in ASOS, despite glimpses of a darker nature in AGOT and ACOK, I guess you can argue that the writers haven't compromised Tyrion's development too, too much at this point, but again, I'm not reassured based on what I've seen so far.

Given the last two seasons, I would almost suspect that Tyrion does not end up killing Shae. Or if he does, it is because they make Shae into fatal attraction style crazy jealous woman.

Ugh, I think you're right. I suspect the Shae/Sansa bond built up in Season 2 is going to be used less for "Yay, sisterhood!" and more for "Bitch stole my man."

Sadly I think they will include it, plus make Joff very publicly tell the room he intends to sleep with Sansa to make Tyrion again seem like her rescuer.

Yeah, I know, it seems the writers won't pass up the opportunity to make Tyrion look like a hero, I just...have hope. Just let me have my optimistic delusions for a little while longer! I've still got five weeks until Season 3 starts!

From the Tyrion still it seems Sansa will refuse to kneel to kiss him (as they seem to have dispensed with cloaks) and from the look on his face it seems they will play up the sympathy for Tyrion angle, not the forced soon to be raped as far as she thinks prisoner.

I agree that she will probably refuse to kneel to kiss him (which includes the refusal to kneel in the books but takes out the cloak exchange part, which seems to have been dispensed with judging from the blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot from one of the making-of videos of what seems to be Sansa in her wedding dress).

Even worse, by building up sympathy that was never there in ACOK, it will come off as he married her to protect her, not the Land grab that it was.

I speculated on the Season 2 Blu-Ray thread that judging from the deleted scene (and the general acting/writing of the Tyrion/Sansa scenes in Season 2, where Peter Dinklage already seems to be playing it as if he's a little bit in love with her), that the writers are going to have Tyrion actually fall in love with Sansa in Season 3 (or at least develops feelings for her to the point where Shae flips out because of jealousy), and oh man, I can only imagine what that will mean for backlash towards Sansa in Season 3.

Also, while in one way it makes sense to replace Willas with Loras, it will make Sansa look worse as it will seem like the Loras match is even more of a dupe, him being gay and Tyrion is even more of a hero.

Even though swapping Willas for Loras makes sense and is actually an elegant book/TV show change in a way--Loras is an established character, Sansa's little crush on Loras is established as well, Sansa initially thinks the Tyrells are offering Loras in the books, she seems to think of Willas as a Loras substitute in the books, and she keeps imagining Willas as resembling Loras in the books--what it loses is that Sansa was willing to marry and even excited about marrying a cripple whose face she'd never even seen, whereas Loras is the embodiment of all her youthful fantasies. It's going to make Sansa look really shallow when she is devastated by the loss of the chance to marry (gorgeous, able-bodied, crushworthy) Loras and is visibly horrified at marrying a dwarf. Depending on the writing, it's also going to make her look really stupid, as unlike Willas, Loras is gay and I would expect there to be at least one scene where Sansa obliviously fails to pick up the obvious hints as to Loras' true orientation. It also diminishes the tragedy of the loss of her Tyrell marriage, since at least in theory she could have been happy with Willas, whereas Loras can never love her and the whole thing would be a sham and a trick played at her expense (as opposed to the viable shot at marital happiness it was in the books).

[1234567]

I don't really get it. What's wrong with some moral ambiguity? I think that Dinklage is such a charismatic actor that even if the writers muddied up his morals a little, viewers would still be rabid admirers. Besides, viewers are more inclined to like and root for morally ambiguous or even outright villainous or sociopathic characters if they get all the good lines: Sawyer and Ben Linus from LOST, Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Damon from The Vampire Diaries, Gaius Baltar from the Battlestar Galactica reboot, Logan Echolls from Veronica Mars, Sark from Alias, and so on and so forth. So I guess I have trouble believing that the writers are "afraid" of viewers not liking Tyrion if they depict his less lovely qualities. I think it's more that the writers/showrunners are Tyrion fanboys and that's why Tyrion comes off as a much nicer, more sympathetic guy, since that's how they perceive him. Since he really only starts his downward spiral in ASOS, I guess you can argue that the writers haven't compromised Tyrion's development too, too much at this point, but again, I'm not reassured based on what I've seen so far.

Ben was my favourite character in Lost. Also Al Swearnagen in Deadwood was fantastic despite being much darker than most characters. I think you are correct about the fanboy thing though. I noticed even in the deleted scene Sandor and Sansa rush through their dialogue and we have nearly as much time as them speaking as on a long shot of Tyrion. It's fairly disheartening.

Ugh, I think you're right. I suspect the Shae/Sansa bond built up in Season 2 is going to be used less for "Yay, sisterhood!" and more for "Bitch stole my man."

Indeed. In fact I can see the scene where Tyrion tells Shae they can't be together because he is marrying Sansa being about him being noble and then after the marriage instead of him running back to her, it's going to be her seducing him and becoming evil woman Shae poisoning Sansa against Tyrion.

I speculated on the Season 2 Blu-Ray thread that judging from the deleted scene (and the general acting/writing of the Tyrion/Sansa scenes in Season 2, where Peter Dinklage already seems to be playing it as if he's a little bit in love with her), that the writers are going to have Tyrion actually fall in love with Sansa in Season 3, and oh man, I can only imagine what that will mean for backlash towards Sansa in Season 3.

Even though swapping Willas for Loras makes sense and is actually an elegant book/TV show change in a way--Loras is an established character, Sansa's little crush on Loras is established as well, Sansa initially thinks the Tyrells are offering Loras in the books, she seems to think of Willas as a Loras substitute in the books, and she keeps imagining Willas as resembling Loras in the books--what it loses is that Sansa was willing to marry and even excited about marrying a cripple whose face she'd never even seen, whereas Loras is the embodiment of all her youthful fantasies. It's going to make Sansa look really shallow when she is devastated by the loss of the chance to marry (gorgeous, able-bodied, crushworthy) Loras and is visibly horrified at marrying a dwarf. Depending on the writing, it's also going to make her look really stupid, as unlike Willas, Loras is gay and I would expect there to be at least one scene where Sansa obliviously fails to pick up the obvious hints as to Loras' true orientation. It also diminishes the tragedy of the loss of her Tyrell marriage, since at least in theory she could have been happy with Willas, whereas Loras can never love her and the whole thing would be a sham and a trick played at her expense.

Yep it's going to be bad. It will probably be "shallow girl can't see she is being played, when look here is this wonderful man who has "rescued" you and you won't love him because he is a dwarf.

She may even be played as starting to fall for him. As I suspect the romantic build up with Tyrion's long looks and almost completely removing the Sansa /Sandor interaction means that Sansa will end up remaining Lady Lannister at the end of the series. The deleted scene kind of suggested that as it changed the dynamic from Sandor being an arse to then protecting her from Ser Boros, to Sandor being an arse and her being protected by Tyrion.

[Woman of War]

I would also like to see Tyrion's drunk or fakedrunk efforts to avoid the bedding ceremony, after it been made clear how Joffrey would have enjoyed it, the king's vulgarity, the aggressions, Tyrion's dangerous knifegame and threat (later used in the trial against him) and his dirty jokes to get out of the room. This could be a highlight for the actors Dinklage and Gleeson.

:agree: I would love to see that scene

I don't really get it. What's wrong with some moral ambiguity? I think that Dinklage is such a charismatic actor that even if the writers muddied up his morals a little, viewers would still be rabid admirers

:agree: again

And Dinklage would for sure be able to transport the character in all its complexity, with all undertones that explain his development. There is no need to leave things out for fear viewers might not like him anymore. Dinklage would be able to give us the Tyrion character as human being to root for, including all morally ambiguous aspects. Though I can understand the logic why they had to leave out Tyrion's participation in th Tysha rape: the show character was sixteen back then since all characters have been aged up and participating in a crime at that age is different from doing it at thirteen. But, yes, butterfly effect.

[Newstar]

Ben was my favourite character in Lost. Also Al Swearnagen in Deadwood was fantastic despite being much darker than most characters.

Exactly. I like most of the characters I put on that list and they are very popular characters, but I'm under no illusions as to the fact they've all done horrible, horrible things and are douchebags at best, scumbags at worst. But hey, I'll still watch them, laugh at their lines, and root for them. Take a charismatic actor (preferably good-looking, but not necessarily), give him a morally ambiguous or villainous character with lots of good lines, and that character will be a fan favourite who can do no wrong, guaranteed. This would have been true of Tyrion, I have no doubt (and will be true if they ever start writing Tyrion that way).

I think you are correct about the fanboy thing though. I noticed even in the deleted scene Sandor and Sansa rush through their dialogue and we have nearly as much time as them speaking as on a long shot of Tyrion. It's fairly disheartening.

I don't even like Sandor that much, but I even I will admit that the writers really made a hash of Sandor's storyline in Season 2. Hopefully, when his plot is tied up with (writer and audience favourite) Arya, his storyline will be fleshed out a little more.

Indeed. In fact I can see the scene where Tyrion tells Shae they can't be together because he is marrying Sansa being about him being noble and then after the marriage instead of him running back to her, it's going to be her seducing him and becoming evil woman Shae poisoning Sansa against Tyrion.

There are a number of ways it could play out, but yeah, this seems depressingly plausible to me.

Yep it's going to be bad. It will probably be "shallow girl can't see she is being played, when look here is this wonderful man who has "rescued" you and you won't love him because he is a dwarf.

It will be worse on the show because Book Tyrion was not only noseless but was also the ugliest man Sansa had ever seen even before he lost his nose. Neither of these is true of TV Tyrion, so apart from the forced-marriage/land grab angle (which I suspect the writers will downplay anyway), Sansa rejecting Tyrion because he's a dwarf is basically what it will boil down to.

[Angmar]

Exactly. I like most of the characters I put on that list and they are very popular characters, but I'm under no illusions as to the fact they've all done horrible, horrible things and are douchebags at best, scumbags at worst. But hey, I'll still watch them, laugh at their lines, and root for them. Take a charismatic actor (preferably good-looking, but not necessarily), give him a morally ambiguous or villainous character with lots of good lines, and that character will be a fan favourite who can do no wrong, guaranteed. This would have been true of Tyrion, I have no doubt (and will be true if they ever start writing Tyrion that way).

Yep, those bad boys are always the center of attention.

[Newstar]

Yep, those bad boys are always the center of attention.

Hahaha, yeah. Charismatic, sociopathic, snarky bad boys are where it's at in the fictional characters department. Heck, if they're charismatic and snarky enough (and ideally good-looking enough), fans will fall all over themselves to justify or explain away every bad thing they do (except maybe abusive behaviour towards women for some reason, and even then there will be people going out of their way to defend them). I suspect that's why Jaime is so popular (and Littlefinger and Tyrion to a lesser extent, because 1) not as good-looking in the books and 2) they're abusive/creepy towards women at various points).

If TV Tyrion in Seasons 1 and 2 had been as grey as his book version, I very much doubt that he would be one iota less popular. Heck, I suspect that post-ASOS Tyrion has declined in popularity not because he's declined morally (killing people, swearing he'll rape and kill Cersei, etc. etc.), but because he's less entertaining--snarky and glib--about it. You can be as villainous as you want, as long as you're charming and witty about it.

[Woman of War]

You can be as villainous as you want, as long as you're charming and witty about it.

Actually........yes. They are fictional, remember. Those Sandor fangirls would probably not fancy a RL mafia hitman but they can afford to fancy our favorite burnt big bad brute because he is only fictional.

And of course I would not want to spend my time in RL with the spoiled and disturbed son of some infamously rich tycoon who owns the Cayman Isles if that son does not seriously distance himself from his family.

But Tyrion as character is quite charismatic and Dinklage as actor is simply fascinating. And, what can I do, I fancy brainy guys with a weird sense of humour, ugly or not. The attraction of a great body is gone after a while, the attraction of a great mind may keep boredom away for the rest of your life.

Should be in the crushes thread........ :)

[Angmar]

Hahaha, yeah. Charismatic, sociopathic, snarky bad boys are where it's at in the fictional characters department. Heck, if they're charismatic and snarky enough (and ideally good-looking enough), fans will fall all over themselves to justify or explain away every bad thing they do (except maybe abusive behaviour towards women for some reason, and even then there will be people going out of their way to defend them). I suspect that's why Jaime is so popular (and Littlefinger and Tyrion to a lesser extent, because 1) not as good-looking in the books and 2) they're abusive/creepy towards women at various points).

If TV Tyrion in Seasons 1 and 2 had been as grey as his book version, I very much doubt that he would be one iota less popular. Heck, I suspect that post-ASOS Tyrion has declined in popularity not because he's declined morally (killing people, swearing he'll rape and kill Cersei, etc. etc.), but because he's less entertaining--snarky and glib--about it. You can be as villainous as you want, as long as you're charming and witty about it.

Ever heard of Draco in Leather Pants? It's a thing all over fiction. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DracoInLeatherPants

[Newstar]

Well, the 60-second Season 3 trailer just aired, and it included 1) a shot of Tyrion slamming his dagger down at the wedding (if you look closely you can see Sansa just at the edge of the frame) and 2) Joffrey saying a non-book line "Everyone is mine to torment" in a scene with Tywin and Tyrion (presumably in response to Tyrion telling Joffrey that Sansa was no longer his to torment in a book scene in ASOS set post-RW). So...yeah, there's that.

Spoilers for the TV show:

The Sansa/Tyrion wedding was spoiled to happen in 3x08, and I'm pretty confident with the "Joffrey is out of control" angle the trailer pushed that the Purple Wedding is in 3x10, so maybe a lot of this debate about the marriage will be academic? They'll really only be "married" for two episodes, from the sounds of it, one of which is going to be heavy on showing the Red Wedding and not much else.

[Pellaeon]

Did any of you consider hat the marriage won't be miserable in the show and LF somehow force Sansa to come with him, and once in his claws she must play alonge? Maybe something like Joffrey choe to death and he takes her aside and explain that if he doesn't come with him her head will roll or something like that?

Maybe in S4 we get a shot of her hiding her wedding ring for later

Considering the trailer nd deleted scene I also suspect that the marriage will be more like Tyrion marrys her so Joffrey can't torment her any more,

Tywin's thoughts on that: Joffrey torment her -> Tyrells find out -> problem

Tyrion's thoughts: marry her -> protect her -> make fans of show happy

Sansa's -> agree to marry -> he was kind to me -> older, better judgment -> he maybe isn't so bad ...

If Loras replace Willas in the show I am sure he is out in the books too and Sansa Tyrion endgame is even more likely

[Minsc]

Did any of you consider hat the marriage won't be miserable in the show and LF somehow force Sansa to come with him, and once in his claws she must play alonge? Maybe something like Joffrey choe to death and he takes her aside and explain that if he doesn't come with him her head will roll or something like that?

Maybe in S4 we get a shot of her hiding her wedding ring for later

Considering the trailer nd deleted scene I also suspect that the marriage will be more like Tyrion marrys her so Joffrey can't torment her any more,

Tywin's thoughts on that: Joffrey torment her -> Tyrells find out -> problem

Tyrion's thoughts: marry her -> protect her -> make fans of show happy

Sansa's -> agree to marry -> he was kind to me -> older, better judgment -> he maybe isn't so bad ...

If Loras replace Willas in the show I am sure he is out in the books too and Sansa Tyrion endgame is even more likely

I would rather D&D not sabotage another character's entire storyline just because they are to much of fanboys to make Tyrion ever look bad.

While, unlikely because said fanboyism I think the best if they maybe make culpable for the predicament.

I.E, seeing how they wrote Dontas out and they have worked up Sansa and Shae's friendship, maybe have it Shae who Sansa reveals the plot of wedding her to Willas to instead. Then Shae could reveal these plans to Tyrion, who then accidentally reveals them to Tywin at a council meeting. At which, Tywin then strong arms Tyrion into marrying Sansa while deep down Tyrion feels that he betrayed his promise to protect Sansa.

Therefore, strengthening the reason why Sansa would be unhappy with her situation but allowing Tyrion not look like an evil power grabber.

[Pellaeon]

I would rather D&D not sabotage another character's entire storyline just because they are to much of fanboys to make Tyrion ever look bad.

While, unlikely because said fanboyism I think the best if they maybe make culpable for the predicament.

I.E, seeing how they wrote Dontas out and they have worked up Sansa and Shae's friendship, maybe have it Shae who Sansa reveals the plot of wedding her to Willas to instead. Then Shae could reveal these plans to Tyrion, who then accidentally reveals them to Tywin at a council meeting. At which, Tywin then strong arms Tyrion into marrying Sansa while deep down Tyrion feels that he betrayed his promise to protect Sansa.

Therefore, strengthening the reason why Sansa would be unhappy with her situation but allowing Tyrion not look like an evil power grabber.

I don't think they would Tyrion blame for that, LF is the better candidate, and after all, the TV series isn't the book, they must please not only book readers, who after book two are already involved, the TV viewers who only look 10 episodes per year are far more important, alone out of financial aspects.

Not to forget Tywin is popular too

BTW: D&D know how ASOIAF will end so if Sansa Tyrio is really endgame they must build it up somehow

[King Tommen]

I have a strong suspicion that Ros will be taking the "Dontos" role this season once Littlefinger departs King's Landing to woo Lysa. There were set photos last summer that have LF leading Ros down to a meeting outside with Sansa. I think since he's already told Sansa that he's going to help her out, he's going to have Ros act as the go-between for them to communicate.

This will be complicated by the fact that Varys has seemingly enticed Ros to act as another spy on LF (as per their discussion in the S2 finale).

If you're looking ahead, you could surmise that Ros might get the Dontos "treatment" by LF in S4 after she helps Sansa escape. LF could be tying up loose ends as he was in the books as well as giving her a little payback by revealing that he found out about her snooping on behalf of Varys. Speculation of course...

[Minsc]

I don't think they would Tyrion blame for that, LF is the better candidate, and after all, the TV series isn't the book, they must please not only book readers, who after book two are already involved, the TV viewers who only look 10 episodes per year are far more important, alone out of financial aspects.

Not to forget Tywin is popular too

BTW: D&D know how ASOIAF will end so if Sansa Tyrio is really endgame they must build it up somehow

If they cannot make bring themselves to make dark(Tywin) and grey(Tyrion) characters act their part for fear of angering viewers then should just cancel the show. That would be much better then them derailing other characters' entire story arc or villainizing said characters to ensure that their favorites still look squeaking clean.

[Pellaeon]

I have a strong suspicion that Ros will be taking the "Dontos" role this season once Littlefinger departs King's Landing to woo Lysa. There were set photos last summer that have LF leading Ros down to a meeting outside with Sansa. I think since he's already told Sansa that he's going to help her out, he's going to have Ros act as the go-between for them to communicate.

This will be complicated by the fact that Varys has seemingly enticed Ros to act as another spy on LF (as per their discussion in the S2 finale).

If you're looking ahead, you could surmise that Ros might get the Dontos "treatment" by LF in S4 after she helps Sansa escape. LF could be tying up loose ends as he was in the books as well as giving her a little payback by revealing that he found out about her snooping on behalf of Varys. Speculation of course...

Maybe but I doubt they built her up 3 seasons only to kill her, maybe she goes with Sansa to the Vale or something like that

[Zman1863]

If they cannot make bring themselves to make dark(Tywin) and grey(Tyrion) characters act their part for fear of angering viewers then should just cancel the show. That would be much better then them derailing other characters' entire story arc or villainizing said characters to ensure that their favorites still look squeaking clean.

True, but I doubt it will be as bad as people think. It is true that some of the darkest aspects about Tyrion's character have been left out of the show but I think they have still created an essentially accurate portrayal of the character as a likable and damaged person who hates most of his family but vigorously supports them anyway with all his powers. There's a good deal of moral ambiguity in the fact that Tyrion was willing to go nuclear in defense of Joffrey through the use of the wild fire.

The foundation for Tyrion's actions at the end of Storm of Swords has already been laid. The conflict between Tyrion and Tywin has been amply demonstrated. It's true that up until this point Shae has been portrayed more favorably than in the books, but I don't expect to see any diversion from end result in an effort to keep Tyrion untainted. The question is merely what form the wedge between Tyrion and Shae takes. Sansa seems likely, but that itself is part of what happened in the book and it need not have any detrimental effects on how Sansa is perceived as a character. I have wondered if they might have made Shae more sympathetic in order to make the later developments even more disturbing when they occur.

I can't get too worried about the makers of the show being influenced by the whims of TV fans. I would think most of the viewers know by now that the series is an adaptation. People don't just abandon shows they like just because of plot developments that evoke negative emotion. Isn't it the point of dramas that things get a bit... dramatic? The opinions of the fans of the books surely carry equal weight in countering any viewer pressures.

In the end its down to the makers of the show if anything is changed. I don't personally see any plot to defame Sansa in an effort to give Tyrion an apotheosis. And I think they've done a good enough job on both characters so far to be hopeful that they will do the marriage scenes right.

Maybe but I doubt they built her up 3 seasons only to kill her, maybe she goes with Sansa to the Vale or something like that

I doubt they can be building her up to much, since she's a non canon character. It would dispose of her quite neatly to get caught up in the LF plot.

[Pellaeon]

I can't get too worried about the makers of the show being influenced by the whims of TV fans. I would think most of the viewers know by now that the series is an adaptation. People don't just abandon shows they like just because of plot developments that evoke negative emotion. Isn't it the point of dramas that things get a bit... dramatic? The opinions of the fans of the books surely carry equal weight in countering any viewer pressures.

But fo this TV show they have to pay so it's much more critical than in normal cases

[Zman1863]

But fo this TV show they have to pay so it's much more critical than in normal cases

To me, the subscription model actually seems to insulate the makers of the show from outside pressure. Most the show's viewers get GOT through subscriptions to HBO as a network and don't purchase episodes individual on other services. Because of this, subscriptions alone don't indicate viewer satisfactions with individual shows. I wouldn't be surprised if HBO has ways of gathering information about people's motives behind their subscription decisions. But in order for subscription numbers to actually impact creative decisions the information gathered would have to be extremely detailed. Contrast that with network TV where the ratings are the most important measure of a show's performance.

[Joyful Union]

Most of the posts on this thread seem to play out like this:

1. Based on almost nothing, x and y will happen

2. X and Y will be D&D's decision, and different from the books

3. These changes will absolutely terrible, further undermining the show, which is already a horrible show.