Cersei never truly loved Jaime.

[MidnightAurora]

I completely agree but I would add that I think Jaime's feelings started out a bit more true, so to speak, until he began to see just what Cercei is and what he truly is to her.

Yes! Jaime being maimed did so much more to change him than anyone yet realizes. Because it shattered the illusions around him and Cercei (and many of his illusions about himself) it may just turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to him. At least, I hope so ;)

Yeah, I think her so-called love even for her own children ultimately comes from a place of narcissism. That is, I think her concern for them only goes as far as their usefulness to her. After she kills Robert her children are a means for her to rule. I think she even is most put out by Marcella's being sent to Dorne because she wanted to use her to make the political match of her choosing. I believe some of her anger at Tyrion over this is also due to not wanting her daughter to suffer the same fate she did (i.e. being forced into a political marriage) but I don't believe that's the only reason.

I agree. Unlike Cersei Myrcella seems fond of Trystane and vice versa. Tyrion sent Myrcella away more of a way to keep Myrcella safe should KL fall and prevent her from being taken/killed. Also it was a good way to ensure Dorne would not rise up against the IT and make an alliance. After reading AFFC, it is apparent Cersei is narcissistic and favored Joff over all her children. She let Joff do what he wanted and rule and never laid a hand on him and it is the opposite with Tommen who is nice and yet gets berated by Cersei, gets punished for "embarrassing" her at the funeral and so many other times. I am glad Kevan told her she is an unfit mother and she should go back to the Rock. I just wished he would had said it when Joff was alive and did more action in that regards. Seriously, did Tywin nor Kevan realize what a monster Joff was beforehand? Didn't they visit him?? Tywin did not seem to "see" it until he was in KL. Jaime grew his beard and Cersei wanted him to shave becasue they looked different with him having a beard and she lost her human mirror. She made another reference to another character that she would like him and wonder if he would shave his beard for her.

She lies, manipulates Jaime for her own use. I do not see Cersei as ever truly loving Jaime especially when she states she had lied to him a thousand times before and berates him when returns to KL at being a cripple and does nothing to comfort him. She is actually disgusted at what became of him. She only states she loves him when she needs him as when she gets arrested by the faith. Jaime I think does love her as stated to Catelyn she is the only woman he had lied with. i just cannot see Cersei as truly loving Jaime.

[Ziemen]

Cersei loves Cersei and she wants to be Jaime. Now process that and you got your answer!

[Daphnaerys Seaworth]

Jaime is everything Cersei wanted to be! Tywin's heir and beloved son! Jaime is her male reflection, that's what she loves about him!

Exactly! Cersei never really wanted to BE WITH Jaime.

She wanted in fact TO BE Jaime and because she couldn't do that.She found solace in doing the other.

[Katerine459]

I think Cersei and Jaime have the very definition of a codependent relationship.

From the beginning, there was a sense that, "we can't live without each other, we aren't whole without the other, we entered this world together and we'll leave this world together," etc.

And, like all codependent relationships (whether they be siblings, parents with children, friendships, or romantic), when Jaime had a life-changing experience away from Cersei and realized that he could survive without her, this completely changed his perspective. But there's the fear there, of her anger, of the end of the relationship that he cherished.

And on her part, there's fear of an end to the security of their relationship, and anger... because she perceives an end to the security of their relationship. Probably only partly because Jaime actually is pulling away, and partly because nothing in her life feels secure anymore, after losing her beloved, darling Joffrey.

[Nilan8888]

And on her part, there's fear of an end to the security of their relationship, and anger... because she perceives an end to the security of their relationship. Probably only partly because Jaime actually is pulling away, and partly because nothing in her life feels secure anymore, after losing her beloved, darling Joffrey.

There might be something to this -- especially on Jamie's part -- but how much time does Cersei really spend lamenting Jamie's absence once we reach her POV chapters? There's a little bit of that, but really not much at all.

Cersei only wanted the relationship with Jamie as long as it reflected what SHE wanted. Once it no longer did that, she dropped it pretty quick. She spends a whole lot more time thinking about Margery and Tyrion and Tywin. This whole 'we can't live without each other' was only said when the relationship was, to turn a phrase 'on again'. When it wasn't convenient, it was dropped.

To put this in perspective, Arienne spends a lot... and I mean A LOT... more time mourning Arys and thinking about him, a man she thought to herself she was kinda sorta using, than Cersei spends thinking about 'her other half'. And when she does, it's what she can do for him. And they're as allied as you can get! Arys was if anything allied with the Lannisters (through the Baratheons, but still...), while Arienne was the heir to the Martells, two families that only pretend to get along with each other (especially the Martells). She has more than enough justification to think of Arys as the enemy and not fret in the slightest about his fate. But she summons more remorse, grief and genuine empathy over him than Cersei can be bothered about her own brother. And that's the one she supposedly LIKES.

[Katerine459]

There might be something to this -- especially on Jamie's part -- but how much time does Cersei really spend lamenting Jamie's absence once we reach her POV chapters? There's a little bit of that, but really not much at all.

Cersei only wanted the relationship with Jamie as long as it reflected what SHE wanted. Once it no longer did that, she dropped it pretty quick. She spends a whole lot more time thinking about Margery and Tyrion and Tywin. This whole 'we can't live without each other' was only said when the relationship was, to turn a phrase 'on again'. When it wasn't convenient, it was dropped.

I agree, and I think this may just be a little misunderstanding surrounding the multiple uses for the word, "security." :)

When I said, "on her part, there's fear of an end to the security of their relationship, and anger... because she perceives an end to the security of their relationship," I meant that their relationship had always given her a sense of security.

Her whole life, she'd felt secure in the knowledge that Jaime would always love her and protect her and be on her side. And then he wasn't. And this made her angry, because she'd needed that security - it was quite possibly the only sense of security she'd ever had.

[calmyourwits]

They loved each other but only up to a point. Jaime's journey from Riverrun to King's Landing changed him a lot and with the help of Tyrion informing him of Cersei's unfaithfulness. Cersei loved herself more than Jamie that much is true. When she was engaging in sexual activities with other men, those are her ways to get power and use other people but I think she always sets aside her love for Jaime, like it's a different thing since they know each other very well. Her love for Rhaegar is a different thing too and it's like she found another love in Jaime. Well people change and when Cersei noticed Jaime's change of attitude she lost interest and it was easy for her to just shrug it off because she LOVES herself more than Jaime. Jaime knows that Cersei LOVED her but he also lost interest since her love for him evolved into something that is only about her.

[ClashOfQueens]

I don't think she ever loved him, maybe she wanted to BE him, and that's why she felt "love" towards him, and that would explain her disgust towards him once he comes back to KL.

[Nilan8888]

The whole Jamie / Cersei thing is more about a shared mental illness than any true bond. And again, it needs no more explanation to how little Cersei even thinks of Jamie in AFFC, when she has real power, to when she thinks more and more about him in ADWD while she is in captivity. The true test of their relationship was when she was a Queen, not when she was a prisoner.

It might be that Cersei finds security in the relationship. But unlike Jamie she has little fidelity to that security and is eager to shed it once it is no longer needed. What's been the death knell of their relationship is that Jamie's caught on to it both through Brienne and Tyrion's words: that he'd been true to her all this time when he could have had all the dalliances Cersei had, but Cersei had a number of further affairs on the side regardless of whatever she felt for Jamie.

Again, I wouldn't say that Arienne was ever truly in love with Arys, but she was a heck of a lot closer to it than Cersei was in love with Jamie.

[Sapphireghost18]

I think they love each other, but it is a twisted and unhealthy love which Jaime has just barely managed to begin to separate from in time, while Cercei, I think, is too late. I think her line about how "it had never been good with anyone but Jaime" is telling. I think he does make her feel whole, but she resents him for that - she is constantly trying to assert her power over him and resentful when he pushes back (his rejection of her when she comes to him in the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard's quarters and during Tywin's vigil, as well as his refusal to be her Hand).

However, I don't think that necessarily means she only loves him when he does what she wants, I just think she interprets these actions as a lessening of his love for her (which, I think, is not entirely inaccurate), and wants to hurt him the way that rejection hurts her. Thus, she lashes out with bitchtastic actions like her treatment of her when he asks her to dance at Tommen's wedding and sending him to Riverrun despite his desire not to go, both because he wants to stay near Tommen and because he wants to hold onto the last remnants of his oath to Catelyn Stark. However, I do understand why she does this and I think it's a bit sad.

She tries to find pleasure with Taena but is unable to. She doesn't seem to care for the Kettleblacks or Lancel at all. I think what she is seeking, in her very twisted way, is what Jaime has found with Brienne - a love that will free her from her unhealthy relationship with Jaime. But again, just because it isn't healthy doesn't mean it isn't love - it's just a bad tainted love! They will both be better off freed of it, but Jaime has a better shot at that than Cercei at this point, ironically, given that I agree that his love started out as a bit more true.

This... ALL OF THIS! Cercei is extremely paranoid so anyone who disagrees with her is a trader. Think about her thoughts on Kevin after he refuses to be hand unless she goes back to the Rock. His decision is in the best interest of the kingdoms, Tommen, and Cercei but she sees it as a betrayal because, in my opinion, she sees anything that doesn't follow her plans as something working against her.

Her love of Jamie is based on how similar they are. Now that Jamie is a brand new person she not only lost her love but she lost the person that she knew would be on her side forever. She loves/loved Jamie but, he is different and she is lost.

[Sapphireghost18]

I don't think she ever loved him, maybe she wanted to BE him, and that's why she felt "love" towards him, and that would explain her disgust towards him once he comes back to KL.

I agree. She wanted what he had. He was able to play with swords, learn to strategize and rule Casterly Rock and she wanted that for herself. She's disgusted because she thinks hes squandering his chance to rule. Any decision he makes that isn't aligned with what she would do if she were him is seen as stupid and wasteful.