Are Sansa and Arriane the only PoV's who haven't killed someone?

[Bastard Walder]

So I just realized that these two are the only PoV characters who haven't murdered someone yet.

Let's check:

Arya: Like a dozen people

Areo: Arys, probably a bunch of others too

Arys: If he's Kingsguard he's obviously killed before. And he struck down a few of Doran's men before Areo loped his head off

Aeron: He commanded a ship, I'm sure he's killed before. He also drowned one of the Tallharts, I think

Asha: A bunch when fighting Stannis, and I'm sure quite a few before too

Bran: He killed wildlings when he warged into Summer to save Jon. Also killed wights as Summer/Hodor

Barristan: 2 gold cloaks, pit fighter, probably a few hundred

Brienne: Shagwell, Rorge

Catelyn: Aegon Frey

Cersei:I don't know if she's ever killed directly, but she's had enough people killed to get on the list

Dany: Mirri, Drogo, Slavers, Book 5

Davos: He was a major figure in the criminal underworld and grew up in Flea's Bottom. Also Blackwater wasn't his first battle.

Eddard: Will, Lannister guards

Jon Snow: Orell, Styr, wildlings

Jaime: Okay honestly, who hasn't he killed?

Jon Conn: Battle of the Bells

Melisandre: Cressen(well not really), Alester Florent and Rattleshirt DO count, though.

Quentyn: He cut down the Astapor militia, fought pirates in the Narrow Sea on way to Essos

Samwell: He killed an OTHER. Hell yes, that counts

Theon: Miller boys, Farlan

Tyrion: Tywin, like 10 soldiers somehow

Victarion AKA Breakout Star of AFFC: That knight from the Shield Islands, 7 whores, the maester, the shit-throwing monkeys, the fisherman, and others

True Sansa could have confessed to Marillion's innocence and saved his life and Arys's death was pretty much all Arriane's fault, but they seem to be the only murder-free PoV's so far. Hmm.

[SerMixalot]

until the others are proved to be non evil I believe sam;s killing isnt technically a murder!

[Bastard Walder]

until the others are proved to be non evil I believe sam;s killing isnt technically a murder!

Well from the Game of Thrones prologue, they're clearly sapient. When Waymar Royce is fighting an Other there are a few other Others who are spectating the fight. They also communicate through a spoken language.

[danm_999]

You're reasoning for Davos having killed someone is pretty spuriouos. There's no evidence he's ever done the deed.

As for Cersei, a lot of people believe she pushed Melara down a well (which I'm inclined to agree with), so I'd say she does belong on that list officially.

[Bastard Walder]

You're reasoning for Davos having killed someone is pretty spuriouos. There's no evidence he's ever done the deed.

As for Cersei, a lot of people believe she pushed Melara down a well (which I'm inclined to agree with), so I'd say she does belong on that list officially.

Yeah I wasn't so sure about Davos. Maybe the answer is in one of his Blackwater chapters.

[Gaius Martell]

Sansa's actions have unintentionally led to deaths. Lots of them, since she got Ned killed and started the war.

How much does Arianne hang out with the Sand Snakes? She *might* have killed someone.

[SerMixalot]

You're reasoning for Davos having killed someone is pretty spuriouos. There's no evidence he's ever done the deed.

As for Cersei, a lot of people believe she pushed Melara down a well (which I'm inclined to agree with), so I'd say she does belong on that list officially.

I vaguely remember davos killing someone during the BWB

[SerMixalot]

yes yes he did

[RedBean]

Sansa's actions have unintentionally led to deaths. Lots of them, since she got Ned killed and started the war.

By that reasoning you could say that anyone was responsible for anyone else's death in the series.

When will people understand that a 13-year-old's actions aren't really resonant enough to start a war? The war started because a lot of adults (supposedly intelligent and responsible adults) made a lot of stupid mistakes and made situations escalate into a war. It was NOT Sansa who started it, and it's ridiculous to believe something like that.

[danm_999]

I vaguely remember davos killing someone during the BWB

He personally doesn't, but his archers on his ship fire at people at the Blackwater and he rams another ship (we don't know if the latter kills anyone, the former does).

But then, I think saying Davos killed someone when it was the archers on his ship is a bit of a long bow to draw (if you'll excuse the pun).

[danm_999]

yes yes he did

Actually, you're right, he stabs someone in the belly.

[Gaius Martell]

By that reasoning you could say that anyone was responsible for anyone else's death in the series.

When will people understand that a 13-year-old's actions aren't really resonant enough to start a war? The war started because a lot of adults (supposedly intelligent and responsible adults) made a lot of stupid mistakes and made situations escalate into a war. It was NOT Sansa who started it, and it's ridiculous to believe something like that.

Pretty confrontational language, considering the use of the modifier "unintentional."

If Cersei's and Melisandre's orders count and Bran-as-Hodor-and-Summer counts, then there is clearly some interpretation of the word "murder" here other than "a person killing another person." Sansa's dialogue with Cersei was less butterfly-effect than you are trying to paint it, but her inaction in regard to Marilion is undeniable. His blood is on her hands.

[The Fallen]

By that reasoning you could say that anyone was responsible for anyone else's death in the series.

When will people understand that a 13-year-old's actions aren't really resonant enough to start a war? The war started because a lot of adults (supposedly intelligent and responsible adults) made a lot of stupid mistakes and made situations escalate into a war. It was NOT Sansa who started it, and it's ridiculous to believe something like that.

She might not have started a war, but she definitely got Ned killed and started the demise of her House. And she'll have to bear that burden for the rest of her life. Unless she can somehow get the Starks back together and reclaim Winterfell. Which, judging by her timidity, is a longshot right now.

[Lady Kraken]

Sansa's actions have unintentionally led to deaths. Lots of them, since she got Ned killed and started the war.

She might not have started a war, but she definitely got Ned killed and started the demise of her House. And she'll have to bear that burden for the rest of her life. Unless she can somehow get the Starks back together and reclaim Winterfell. Which, judging by her timidity, is a longshot right now.

No. Joffrey killed Ned, probably inspired by Petyr Baelish and carried out by Janos Slynt and Ilyn Payne. The author of this series himself disagrees with the idea that "Sansa killed Ned." Remove one factor from that shitstorm (Ned telling Cersei everything, Robert dying, Cersei being Cersei, Petyr betraying Ned) and you get a different outcome. What Sansa did was stupid, but she was also 11-years-old and had no malicious intent. It baffles me that people try to throw all the blame on her when there are adult characters who made obviously malicious decisions that sparked this war and so many deaths intentionally. They deserve your scorn.

And I believe the intention of this thread is actual murder. Like axe to face murder. Sansa has never murdered anyone. Read the OP. Debate this issue in a thread where it is appropriate. Except don't because it's already been debated to death.

[danm_999]

She might not have started a war, but she definitely got Ned killed and started the demise of her House. And she'll have to bear that burden for the rest of her life. Unless she can somehow get the Starks back together and reclaim Winterfell. Which, judging by her timidity, is a longshot right now.

The chain of events that led to Ned's death stretch too far into the future beyond Sansa's confession to Cersei to say she got Ned killed.

[RedBean]

Sansa had no hand in killing her father. If I'm using "confrontational" language, it's because I think it's downright cruel to accuse her of things like killing her father, starting a war, bringing down her house etc. She's just a girl, and she made a couple of stupid mistakes, but people seem to want to justify their hatred of her by blaming her for things of such huge magnitudes. It's RIDICULOUS. Really.

[Errant Bard]

Indeed, there is no unintentional or intentional murder there. Ned had told Cersei what he was was going to do himself. Sansa says nothing, the one thing that changes is that she doesn't get captured right away.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Cersei murdered Melara directly. An Catelyn scored at least a kill on the wildlings during the travel to the Vale.

[Summerqueen]

Sansa helped Cersei refine her timing perhaps, but not really. Ned himself says that he expected Cersei to act immediately. Sansa didn't tell Cersei anything she didn't already know, as Ned broadcasted his intentions to expose her when they spoke about her crimes. Cersei certainly uses Sansa's earlier confidence in her (she told her mother-in-law to-be she was leaving, huge crime here, folks) to try to make Sansa feel complicit in the move against Ned. But there's no reason to trust what Cersei claims ; she's actively working on Sansa to get her cooperation after Ned's imprisonment, after all, when Sansa's actions are conveniently revealed to the reader.

As for the OP, I would stick with the word "kill" as many of the cited references are not really what many people would call murder. Killing in self defense or as a soldier in a maneuver of war, for example, would not be called murder by many people. Calling such actions murder may muddy the water considerably.

[Darth Rivers]

I don't understand, what's so bad about having killed someone? Especially in battle.

Oh, and Tyrion has killed more than 11 people for sure, judging by the battle descriptions.

[FuzzyJAM]

I don't understand, what's so bad about having killed someone? Especially in battle.

Oh, and Tyrion has killed more than 11 people for sure, judging by the battle descriptions.

Ending a sentient life is probably the single most difficult action to justify morally.

I feel that it can be justified, but as a general rule I'd say virtually all killing in ASoIaF is, at the very least, questionable.