Is Cersei really a good mother?

[RockoftheLions]

Cersei clearly loves her children more than life itself. But love isn't what makes a good mother. For example, she loves Tommen, but still makes him whip Pate when he refuses to bend to her will. Then there's Joffrey - but Robert deserves half the blame for how he turned out. Still, she never did much to discourage his actions, and doesn't seem to even realize how badly his behavior had become by the end.

I'm going to be honest: I don't think that Cersei is a good mother. Throughout the first three books, I could see that everything she did was out of love for her children. But when we got her POV in AFFC, her treatment of Tommen and blatant favoritism of Joffrey made me lose all respect for her in that regard. Not to mention her first thought in ADWD, upon hearing about Myrcella's mutilation, was essentially "Dang. And she was pretty, too."

She certainly loves them. Her primary motivation for half her actions is to keep them safe. But some of her methods are questionable.

Thoughts? Or is this just me?

[FuzzyJAM]

I don't think any sane person would ever call Cersei a good mother.

[Sand11751]

Cersei is a good mother. Her own pride, need for power and general bleak outlook on life get in her way. Whereas love is prime motivation with her kids, power is her ultimate desire. Works very nicely for her when the kids do exactly as they're told, but like any good lioness, she knows to give a good nip to the cub in question that steps out of line.

[Monk Meth-]

2/3 lol

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Cersei a good mother? Muhahahahahahahahahahahaha, can't breathe, muhahahahaha...

[Night Gathers]

Cersei wouldn't be described as a wholly good person, but I'd say she's a fairly good mother. She does everything in her power to protect her children, she has a big impact on their development, which we clearly notice. We even know that she wants her opinions and thoughts to be somewhat understood by her children. For example, she didn't want Ser Loras to be Tommen's Master-at-arms because he was with the Tyrells. To me it seems Tommen doesn't really understand at first, but in the end he gives in.

It's like with Tywin, he maybe wasn't the most lovable person, but he truly raised his children to share his values. Cersei does the same with her children.

This could be viewed both good and bad, but in the end I'd say a bad parent in Westeros would be Randyll Tarly, because he gave up on his first born. Whereas Cersei is a bad person, not a bad mother.

[FuzzyJAM]

Well, guess I was wrong.

Apparently you can be a good parent if you think you're a good parent doing everything to protect your children when, in actuality, you're constantly putting them in genuine danger of execution because you just have to have sex with your brother.

[ViennaGirl]

It depends on how you define "good mom." I'd say that Cersei tries (sometimes fails, but tries) to obtain a good outcome for her kids. To be fair, you don't have a POV from Joffrey about his childhood, which may have been insane, you just see Cersei through the eyes of people who dislike her, until pretty far in the series. So yeah, Joffrey was a sociopath, and maybe parenting had something to do with it, but maybe he was headed that direction on his own (which I would argue). Tommen and Myrcella seem to be pretty decent, as far as we can tell.

Cersei does act in her kids' interest - engaging Joffrey to Sansa made sense, breaking that and engaging him to Margaery made sense. Sending Myrcella to Dorne made sense. She wants them to survive and to retain power. She's sort of a paranoid sociopath like Joffrey, but I think you can argue that she parented in her kids' best interest, as best she could with the information she had.

[Ned's Epic Beard]

Cersei is a good mother and Joffery is a good son..in a twisted seven hells! Real good mother is Catelyn. Her sons and daughters are decent human-beings.

[FuzzyJAM]

It depends on how you define "good mom." I'd say that Cersei tries (sometimes fails, but tries) to obtain a good outcome for her kids. To be fair, you don't have a POV from Joffrey about his childhood, which may have been insane, you just see Cersei through the eyes of people who dislike her, until pretty far in the series. So yeah, Joffrey was a sociopath, and maybe parenting had something to do with it, but maybe he was headed that direction on his own (which I would argue). Tommen and Myrcella seem to be pretty decent, as far as we can tell.

Cersei does act in her kids' interest - engaging Joffrey to Sansa made sense, breaking that and engaging him to Margaery made sense. Sending Myrcella to Dorne made sense. She wants them to survive and to retain power. She's sort of a paranoid sociopath like Joffrey, but I think you can argue that she parented in her kids' best interest, as best she could with the information she had.

There's a problem with your argument here: The marriage to Sansa was Robert's idea, the marriage to Margaery was Littlefingers (and she fought against it) and sending Myrcella to Dorne was Tyrion's idea and, again, she fought against it.

[bloodymime]

It's like with Tywin, he maybe wasn't the most lovable person, but he truly raised his children to share his values. Cersei does the same with her children.

This could be viewed both good and bad, but in the end I'd say a bad parent in Westeros would be Randyll Tarly, because he gave up on his first born. Whereas Cersei is a bad person, not a bad mother.

I agree with you there, Tywin truly raised his children to share his values. All that mattered was the image, never the substance. He was a man that treated his own son like shit yet would go to war when Tyrion was kidnapped. Not for Tyrion mind you, but because "The honor of our House was at stake."

It never mattered what was actually there to Tywin, only what other people saw. It's no surprise his childrens own love is such a weak and stunted thing.

[Fire Eater]

There's a problem with your argument here: The marriage to Sansa was Robert's idea, the marriage to Margaery was Littlefingers (and she fought against it) and sending Myrcella to Dorne was Tyrion's idea and, again, she fought against it.

Actually the marriage to Margaery was Tyrion's idea, Littlefinger was the envoy. Other than that I agree with you on everything. She is blind to Joffrey's psychopathy and wants Tommen to be more like Joffrey. She bullies Tommen throughout AFfC, and has him punished for angry telling her not to remark having his wife's tongue torn out.

I agree with you there, Tywin truly raised his children to share his values. All that mattered was the image, never the substance. He was a man that treated his own son like shit yet would go to war when Tyrion was kidnapped. Not for Tyrion mind you, but because "The honor of our House was at stake."

It never mattered what was actually there to Tywin, only what other people saw. It's no surprise his childrens own love is such a weak and stunted thing.

True, Tywin thought of Jaime as his ideal heir, handsome and a good warrior, when Jaime was impulsive and said anything that came into his head, while Tyrion actually has his father's intelligence and political acumen despite his grotesque appearance. Tywin has always been conscious of what others thought about him as result of the memory of his father.

[RockoftheLions]

There's a problem with your argument here: The marriage to Sansa was Robert's idea, the marriage to Margaery was Littlefingers (and she fought against it) and sending Myrcella to Dorne was Tyrion's idea and, again, she fought against it.

Right. Cersei's problem seems to be an inability to let go. She wants everything to be under her control.

It never mattered what was actually there to Tywin, only what other people saw. It's no surprise his childrens own love is such a weak and stunted thing.

THIS. All three Lannister cubs either love too much or too little. Cersei, being the only girl, has the pressure of wanting to be like her father but not like him at the same time. It doesn't manifest itself very well in her parenting skills. It's like she's torn between smothering them and tough love-ing them.

[DornishKnight]

The real question is: Is there a worse mother than Cersei?

She "loves" Joffrey and can't see any wrong in him because he is her key to power, and is both as idiotic and ruthless as her; to boot, he is the little mama's boy. She "loves" Myrcella only because of her female status. Then look at how she treats Tommen. Poor kid, he doesn't deserve any of the horrors that await him in future installments.

[The Taupe Grace]

I guess what makes her actions worse is (as with most of her ruling political decisions) is that she thinks she's being wise to do so, as in her imparted advice to Sansa, and she thinks she's doing what's best for her children. She believes that fear and cruelty and power are what is important, and raises Joffrey under those principles and ignoring all other advice that would have been good for her. Her jealousy of her children leads her to reject and resent Margaery's influence that would make him a good ruler and strengthen their status. She's a textbook control freak.

[Castel]

Cersei wouldn't be described as a wholly good person, but I'd say she's a fairly good mother. She does everything in her power to protect her children, she has a big impact on their development, which we clearly notice.

Having a big impact on your kid's development=/= good mother. Child abusers also have a huge impact on their child's lives, are they good mothers?

We even know that she wants her opinions and thoughts to be somewhat understood by her children. For example, she didn't want Ser Loras to be Tommen's Master-at-arms because he was with the Tyrells. To me it seems Tommen doesn't really understand at first, but in the end he gives in.

Your assertion isn't backed up by your example. She doesn't try to explain things to Tommen in any reasonable manner,she just commands him. And marginalizing Loras is not a sign of her trying to make her kids understand her motivation, you even admit that Tommen doesn't get it. Cersei did what she did because she's very, very paranoid and controlling.

It's like with Tywin, he maybe wasn't the most lovable person, but he truly raised his children to share his values. Cersei does the same with her children.

This could be viewed both good and bad, but in the end I'd say a bad parent in Westeros would be Randyll Tarly, because he gave up on his first born. Whereas Cersei is a bad person, not a bad mother.

Not to be rude, but for a few moments there I thought you were subtly trolling. Present mother=/= good mother.

It never mattered what was actually there to Tywin, only what other people saw. It's no surprise his childrens own love is such a weak and stunted thing.

I don't know, Tywin truly seemed to love Jaime and Cersei, he was a bit more jovial when he was younger, but after one too many disappointments with Aerys he basically shut down.

[Howling Mad]

The real question is: Is there a worse mother than Cersei?

Please let me introduce you to Lysa Arryn.

[Last Eye of Bloodraven]

Cersei is the model for bad mother.

She does not love her children. Love requires emphaty and she has 0.

She is the projection queen.

Everything is about her and her desire to rule.

She doesn't want Myrcela to go Dorne because she was sent to Robert.

She tries to rule trough Joffrey and even thinks his doing a decent job, he is just a little "dificult" because she sees herself in him.

[Maroucia]

This could be viewed both good and bad, but in the end I'd say a bad parent in Westeros would be Randyll Tarly, because he gave up on his first born. Whereas Cersei is a bad person, not a bad mother.

No, there is worse! Think of

Crasters!!!! :ack:

[Hear Us Roar]

Yes she is fine. They are the highest of the nobles, they have to be ruthless and cunning to stay on top of the other nobles vying for power. Joffrey has the ruthlessness part down but not the cunning. He is 13, so if he had another 10 years to develop things might have been different. Nothing wrong with a healthy appetite for murder, half the realm has that down, but you have to know when to use it and when not to.