Lannister Downfall.

[Istari]

I haven't read the thread, so I may be saying what has already been said, but here it goes!

I think that there will be a "Lannister Downfall" that will ultimately be at the hands of Cersei. But, though Cersei may be the catalyst for the 'Lannister Downfall', I think her family has all helped in contributing to the House's inevitable destruction. However, I think this will only be temporary. Depending on how his story arc plays out, it is possible that Tyrion will be the one to restore the Lannister House to its former 'glory'. I say this because 1) I think GRRM loves Tyrion too much to kill him/give him and 'unhappy' ending and 2) because its likely that Tyrion will counsel the 'rightful monarch' of Westeros (and if the gods are just that monarch will not be Dany) and his allegiance will be rewarded with Casterly Rock

Either way, I think the Lannister's are in for a major shitstorm

Edit: unwanted emoticons..

[Lyanna Stark]

@elizamartell the only person who can remove unconsummated marriages is the high septon i believe even baelish said he cant marry of sansa stark but alyane to harry the heir till tyrion is a corpse

Indeed. The only person who can is the High Septon. A person who is negative towards the nobility, has a high propensity to dislike and distrust the Lannisters after Cersei's indiscretions.

Now, imagine a scenario where someone, say someone who owns a lot of brothels in Kings Landing, which would be the answer to "Where do whores go?", brought forward a believable Tysha and claimed that Tyrion is already married?

Join the dots.

With regards to other houses:

Starks: there are still 4 Starks alive (one male child), there is a possibility of Rob's child being conceived

Arryn's: Close to extinction, true. Though GRRM so far has demonstrated that cripples and physically weak people can still outlive great heroes

Targaryen: two possible heirs (if R+L=J and Aegon theories are both true), plus, there is no proof that Daenerys is barren

Tully: One heir at a whim of Lannisters, but there is also The Blackfish who escaped and is pretty much capable of having kids (at least there is nothing to indicate otherwise)

Baratheon: One bastard, one little girl (Shireen) and her father who is in his prime (but there is a possibility that he will die without siring progeny)

You do realise that the Starks, being a 8000 years old family, have very, very probably occasionally continued through the female line right? Having no male heir just means it falls to the nearest female heir and that her son in turn will continue the male line. For reference: Harry the Heir, who is related to the Arryns through several women, and only a few men, yet he is still the closest relative, hence he is the heir. Given that the Blackfish seems not to keen on marriage, after Edmure and his child with Roslin, the inheritance of Riverrun would go to Bran, then Rickon, Sansa and Arya respectively, and then to Sweetrobin.

House Baratheon also has far more than one bastard, it's just that there's only one legitimised bastard (Edric Storm). (EDIT: recognised, not legitimised)

[Gurkhal]

House Baratheon also has far more than one bastard, it's just that there's only one legitimised bastard (Edric Storm).

This may be nitpicking but Edric Storm isnt legitimized but recognized. He's still a bastard and not counted as trueborn.

[Jamie Lannister]

Isn't that a little harsh?

A bit, but he has really contributed to it. Not even considering the fact that he's actively trying to keep Sansa out of his family's hands...

[Dzeser]

Indeed. The only person who can is the High Septon. A person who is negative towards the nobility, has a high propensity to dislike and distrust the Lannisters after Cersei's indiscretions.

Now, imagine a scenario where someone, say someone who owns a lot of brothels in Kings Landing, which would be the answer to "Where do whores go?", brought forward a believable Tysha and claimed that Tyrion is already married?

Join the dots.

i did forget about tysha good catch still if she is dead tyrion is still married to sansa even the red viper was planning something with her its too early to dismiss the marriage and the potential for a stark lannister alliance after all even jon snow thought tyrion is good, bran wont forget the saddle so its still wide open if tyrion is the scion of house lannister i could see that happening

[Kittykatknits]

Isn't that a little harsh?

I really don't think that Jaime would sink to directly betraying his House, kin and king like that. If he does he's back in his own egocentric and self-serving way again. I really hope Martin won't pull a move like that.

Hence the word crackpot....

i did forget about tysha good catch still if she is dead tyrion is still married to sansa even the red viper was planning something with her its too early to dismiss the marriage and the potential for a stark lannister alliance after all even jon snow thought tyrion is good, bran wont forget the saddle so its still wide open if tyrion is the scion of house lannister i could see that happening

The saddle and Jon's impressions happened all the way back in the first book. Before the war, Ned's death, Robb's death, and the forced marriage. I would not be surprised in the least if their impressions change.

[ermireallydontcare]

I think the Lannisters are in a downward spiral they're not going to break.

I can't guess at what will happen to Tyrion - him joining Dany and helping her conquest seems a little too obvious and uncomplicated to me for ASOIAF.

As for Cersei and Jaime, I really want Jaime to be the valonqar.

My best guess is that some of the minor Lannisters will stick around and inherit the Rock, but House Lannister will never be as powerful as before.

[WinterWarrior]

I think the Lannisters will survive through Tyrion and he will get Casterly Rock from Dany when she conquers Westeros. Jon Snow may also be part of this equation, he always liked Tyrion and Sansa will have to admit that he treated her well.....so maybe Dany/Jon will consider him an ally and give him Casterly Rock. I think he will find Tysha as well.

I don't see Tyrion dying. GRRM likes him too much.

[Lyanna Stark]

i did forget about tysha good catch still if she is dead tyrion is still married to sansa even the red viper was planning something with her its too early to dismiss the marriage and the potential for a stark lannister alliance after all even jon snow thought tyrion is good, bran wont forget the saddle so its still wide open if tyrion is the scion of house lannister i could see that happening

Do you think Littlefinger cares if the real Tysha is dead? As long as he can dig up a_woman_that_can_pose_as_Tysha, he can get away with it.

[Winter's Knight]

Do you think Littlefinger cares if the real Tysha is dead? As long as he can dig up a_woman_that_can_pose_as_Tysha, he can get away with it.

Just so-he's already pulled a similar trick with Arya/Jeyne Poole.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Do you think Littlefinger cares if the real Tysha is dead? As long as he can dig up a_woman_that_can_pose_as_Tysha, he can get away with it.

He doesn't even need a live Tysha. Just a believable witness (for example the septon marrying them, or the guards who raped her, or Jaime and a bunch of other guys) that Tyrion married her and that nobody knew whether she was dead when Tyrion married Sansa. That alone renders the Marriage invalid and the High Septon will act on it.

Honestly, that is the only slim chance Tyrion has uf surviving. There are several millions that won't have Sansa married to a Lannister, however "nice". And they prefer divorce by axe.

[Lyanna Stark]

Honestly, that is the only slim chance Tyrion has uf surviving. There are several millions that won't have Sansa married to a Lannister, however "nice". And they prefer divorce by axe.

Divorce by axe. Ouch. :lol:

But I agree. It would resolve a couple of plot points as well: Tysha's point in the plot (since I doubt it is for them to have a happy reunion) as a foil/sin/constant reminder of what Tyrion wishes in life, it would resolve Sansa's plot armour and make her a possible prey for another arranged marriage union, which she may now be in a position to block on her own accord, plus it could open up the possibility of Sansa actually being able to cooperate/negotiate with Tyrion in some way since as unhappy participants in a forced marriage they can't really do that, but as future representatives of their Houses, they could at least negotiate a truce.

[Lord Damian]

Honestly, there may not be many things left to claim if the others sweep over the wall or around it or come out of the ocean, there may be islands of safe haven, warded if you will, like potentially Winterfell.