Lannister Downfall.

[ed Lannister]

i think with the existence of some lannisters in the westerlands (damion,daven,martyn,lucion) the reign of the house in the westerlands will be still formidable as they have intergrated well through marriages to their bannermen houses marbrands,crakehalls,swyft and have the loyalty of the whole westerlands behind them even with the losses they incurred in the wars and the setback is only their ability to be a strong supporter of house baratheon of kingslanding. lannister power in westeros was at it lowest by the end of ASOS but since AFFC and ADWD they have regrouped and have consolidated their power in the westerlands...Cersei,jaime and tyrion were the follies that caused the problems to tywin's line but with the changes happening in westeros i predict daven or damion will be the main guys who determine the course of action the lannisters take in supporting tommen. and if tommen is defated they are most likely to bend the knee to whichever king on the throne

[Princess_of_Sunspear]

I agree with you: Tyrion is a kinslayer, that didn´t consumated his marriage and that wil be - most certainly - dead by the end of the story.

But the Lannisters are far from finished: gold in great quantities, a great city, a land with good defensive capabilities (mountains and castles; breached one time by the cunning of a wolf and his master), a numerous family (with 5 possible male Lannister heirs), bannermen that proved till now to be faithful (no Karstark, Bolton, Florent or Frey types), Casterly Rock and the survival instinct of the Lions: if the enemy is too strong, lets try to get in their good graces... and none resist the stare of a sad, golden kittie!

I dont believe Jaime (and even less, Tyrion) would inherit the Rock; i hope Daven (of the other branch of the Lannisters) could inherit the Rock and continue has Warden of the West: he seems to be a competent and nice guy.

And i think that is most probable we assist to the end of the Starks (survives one male child), Baratheon (only one male BASTARD) , Targaryen (one -?- male heir and one -barren?- woman), Arryn (one sick boy) or Tully (heir at the whim of the Lannisters), that of the Lannisters.

Imagine: no more wolfs, stags, eagles and trouts... and a Dragon that make peace with a Lion ---> Daenerys love Daven :D scenario...

Omg: much people will die from a stroke :(

I don't think gold and natural defences and loyal bannermen would help if there is no cunning and shrew mind to use all three to advance the house. Tywin was a great tactician, and Kevan could be expected to have some of Tywin's mojo, but the rest of Lannisters are scattered/half-mad/injured. There is no more unity to them, which was a also a factor in Frey prosperity. Should anything happen to Walder Frey, you can bet the house would fall to pieces, and Lannister house is already crumbling.

With regards to other houses:

Starks: there are still 4 Starks alive (one male child), there is a possibility of Rob's child being conceived

Arryn's: Close to extinction, true. Though GRRM so far has demonstrated that cripples and physically weak people can still outlive great heroes

Targaryen: two possible heirs (if R+L=J and Aegon theories are both true), plus, there is no proof that Daenerys is barren

Tully: One heir at a whim of Lannisters, but there is also The Blackfish who escaped and is pretty much capable of having kids (at least there is nothing to indicate otherwise)

Baratheon: One bastard, one little girl (Shireen) and her father who is in his prime (but there is a possibility that he will die without siring progeny)

[jarl the climber]

My thinking on this is that, 1. With Tywin Lannister dead and Tommen on the Throne an Cersei as the regent the Western Lords have continued to be obedient to the Lannisters so far, there has been no open rebellion to their authority yet. 2. That Cerseis tenure and arrest and punishment have some of them starting to question the competence of the new Lords of Casterly Rock. 3. Jamie was well known, respected and even liked by the these bannermen but he has disappeared and he can be fickle plus he has taken vows that prevent him from ruling. 4. I think we are likely to see disputes between the Western bannerman that start to threaten Lannister rule. Mosy likely it will start with fighting between the Plumms and the Crakehalls, Hardstone and Strongboar over marrying Gatehouse Ami. 5. Aunt Gemma feel that Riverrun is unsafe, she will start playing her own game to ensure the survival of her remaining children, Cleos was killed with Jamie and Brienne and another was murdered by Karstark. 6. As far as the Lannisters go only Tyrion could credibly back the Targs or even Stannis but there is nothing to prevent the bannermen from defying them and doing this. 7. So far the Westernlands have escaped attack by the Ironborn, that might change in the next book.

Up til now obedience to the Lannisters has become an ingrained habit but the weakness, incompetence, absence and in Jamies instance, indifference has surely been noted by now and will start causing trouble for them in the next couple of books. It will most likely be the Plumms, the Crakehalls or even the Farmans of Fair Isle who start causing trouble for them. I also don't think that Genna will sit back and let Cersei and her fool of a husband get her and her kids killed.

[Dzeser]

@elizamartell the only person who can remove unconsummated marriages is the high septon i believe even baelish said he cant marry of sansa stark but alyane to harry the heir till tyrion is a corpse

@roaming ronin dany needs allies in westeros and if she isnt the idiot i think she is she will use tyrion, he is as clever and cunning as baelish and varys after all

tyrion did kill his father but that doesnt mean anything if he takes the rock. might is till right in westeros and if tyrion rides a dragon wth do u think is gna happen then? remember the florents had the better claim to highgarden but after the conquest it was still given to the tyrells dany can easily install tyrion IF she wins and tyrion lives. I still think tyrion us the best hope for lannister survival after kevan died the other lannisters like devan and all seem like good ppl but they cannot play the game of thrones so they could survive but it will be like the days of tytos lannister

[John W]

As long as Tyrion is alive I wouldn't count out the Lannisters. He may well end up the Lord of Casterly Rock yet.

I don't think Jamie wants the job and without Tywin as backup he can outmanuever Cersei and any other Lannister that stands in his way.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I want Tyrions daughter by Tysha, Lanna, the whore out of the Happy Port in Braavos to end up the Lady of the Rock. Just for the mental picture of Tywin Lannister watching up from the hells and seeing it.

Yes, I know that's just a crackpot theory, don't care :box:

And there is a bunch of other guys who can remove unconsummated marriages. The High Septon, a Council of the Faith, somebody holding a sword to said councils back, somebody not caring about the Seven und enough power to get around, somebody choosing divorce by blade...

[Sand Snake No. 9]

I disagree.

The downfall of the Lannisters are projectiles. Theres a reason that Jaime hates archers so much and that Kevan and Tywin both die of bolts. This is no coincidence.

Ah, good catch! Have you read "The Mystery Knight?" In that story Dunk & Egg are talking about "Fireball," a great knight loyal to Daemon Blackfyre, who wasn't killed in battle with another great knight but by an anonymous archer as he knelt to take a drink of water. I can see the parallels.

[Thallus]

Ah, good catch! Have you read "The Mystery Knight?" In that story Dunk & Egg are talking about "Fireball," a great knight loyal to Daemon Blackfyre, who wasn't killed in battle with another great knight but by an anonymous archer as he knelt to take a drink of water. I can see the parallels.

Alas, no D&E for me.

[Hear Us Roar]

The Reynes are just pre-history to explain Tywin's character and what he is all about. He finished them

[BlueHighwind]

Even if there were any Reynes left, what would it matter? Under Cersei the Lannisters are evaporating so quickly that the surviving Reynes would have to move really quickly in order to get the Lannisters' heads first. The real question is: will the Lannisters fall by Martell, Tyrell, Stark, Targ, and/or the Others?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Even if there were any Reynes left, what would it matter? Under Cersei the Lannisters are evaporating so quickly that the surviving Reynes would have to move really quickly in order to get the Lannisters' heads first. The real question is: will the Lannisters fall by Martell, Tyrell, Stark, Targ, and/or the Others?

None of the above: the Lannisters will fall by Lannisters.

[Jamie Lannister]

None of the above: the Lannisters will fall by Lannisters.

This is possible. Jaime himself has done more damage to his House than all of the Starks combined...

[ed Lannister]

I don't think gold and natural defences and loyal bannermen would help if there is no cunning and shrew mind to use all three to advance the house. Tywin was a great tactician, and Kevan could be expected to have some of Tywin's mojo, but the rest of Lannisters are scattered/half-mad/injured. There is no more unity to them, which was a also a factor in Frey prosperity. Should anything happen to Walder Frey, you can bet the house would fall to pieces, and Lannister house is already crumbling.

With regards to other houses:

Starks: there are still 4 Starks alive (one male child), there is a possibility of Rob's child being conceived

Arryn's: Close to extinction, true. Though GRRM so far has demonstrated that cripples and physically weak people can still outlive great heroes

Targaryen: two possible heirs (if R+L=J and Aegon theories are both true), plus, there is no proof that Daenerys is barren

Tully: One heir at a whim of Lannisters, but there is also The Blackfish who escaped and is pretty much capable of having kids (at least there is nothing to indicate otherwise)

Baratheon: One bastard, one little girl (Shireen) and her father who is in his prime (but there is a possibility that he will die without siring progeny)

Every house you have listed in your post are in the same preidicament as house lannister but the strong point to the lannisters is they have enough heirs should no successor come from tywin's line.the gold and loyal bannermen still play to their advantage exemplified by daven leading their army in the siege of riverrun and jaime leading his smallhost from KL to link up to daven's army. majority of the readers assume the lannisters were or are the rulers but the facts layed out by the author is that they were the principle backers of house baratheon of KL headed by joffrey and currently held by tommen. As at the end of ADWD the tyrells were the main backers of of house baratheon of KL in military strength and small council representation....

My thinking on this is that, 1. With Tywin Lannister dead and Tommen on the Throne an Cersei as the regent the Western Lords have continued to be obedient to the Lannisters so far, there has been no open rebellion to their authority yet. 2. That Cerseis tenure and arrest and punishment have some of them starting to question the competence of the new Lords of Casterly Rock. 3. Jamie was well known, respected and even liked by the these bannermen but he has disappeared and he can be fickle plus he has taken vows that prevent him from ruling. 4. I think we are likely to see disputes between the Western bannerman that start to threaten Lannister rule. Mosy likely it will start with fighting between the Plumms and the Crakehalls, Hardstone and Strongboar over marrying Gatehouse Ami. 5. Aunt Gemma feel that Riverrun is unsafe, she will start playing her own game to ensure the survival of her remaining children, Cleos was killed with Jamie and Brienne and another was murdered by Karstark. 6. As far as the Lannisters go only Tyrion could credibly back the Targs or even Stannis but there is nothing to prevent the bannermen from defying them and doing this. 7. So far the Westernlands have escaped attack by the Ironborn, that might change in the next book.

Up til now obedience to the Lannisters has become an ingrained habit but the weakness, incompetence, absence and in Jamies instance, indifference has surely been noted by now and will start causing trouble for them in the next couple of books. It will most likely be the Plumms, the Crakehalls or even the Farmans of Fair Isle who start causing trouble for them. I also don't think that Genna will sit back and let Cersei and her fool of a husband get her and her kids killed.

all cersei muck ups were set right by kevan before he was killed by varys(the reason being kevan had set the power of the reach and the faith militants under the high sparrow and westerlands firmly behind tommen) at the end of ADWD cersei had no control of any position to cause any more problems for tommens rule. Damion as castellan at casterly rock,daven as the warden of the west,kevan as regent to tommen,jaime as the lord commader of the kingsguard worked well to restore the lannisters rule in the westerlands and placate the reach after tywin's death and their bannermen have been treated well and still continue to offer unwavering support to the lannisters when needed so the loyalty apsect to the lannistersby the plumms and crakehalls will trump plumms fighting the crakehalls over gatehouse ami

genna's fears are there but jaime left her with a garrison of 300 lannister guards to bolster whatever frey guards her husband commanded so she has atleast 400-500 men with her to garrison riverun and golden tooth is a straight march to riverun and she can flee to westerlands without any hindrance or call up for help if the from the host of house lefford if there is need for it.

[Thallus]

Wow, it just came to me, Quarrels.

The Lannisters will fall by quarrels, mostly internal quarrels.

Just let that sink in.

[Kittykatknits]

None of the above: the Lannisters will fall by Lannisters.

Agree. The seeds for that end have been put in place almost since the first book in the series.

This is possible. Jaime himself has done more damage to his House than all of the Starks combined...

One of my personal favorite crackpot theories is that Jaime will turn his cloak and formally join the Stark cause.

[nara]

This has probably been mentioned before, but how about a repeat of the Field of Fire being the downfall of the Lannisters?

For those who don't remember this story, the King of the Rock and the King of the Reach joined forces to battle the Targaryens. They had the Targaryens on the run until Aegon and his sisters brought their 3 dragons and killed the King of the Reach and caused King of the Rock to surrender. It was the only time that all 3 dragons fought together.

Now, we have proxies for the king of the Rock and the King of the reach -- the Lady of the Rock (Queen Cersei) and the Lady of the Reach (Queen Margaery) and once again, 3 dragons....This time, it will be the Lady of Lannister who is killed by dragon fire, along with thousands of people, and the Lady of the Reach who bends the knee.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Booooring. Dany has absoutely no emotional investment with Cersei and company. Leave killing her to someone who deserves it: Jaime, Tyrion, all the Starks, all the Tullys, all the Martells, the BWB, the Faith, the Tyrells, the smallfolk of KL, Stannis, they all have cause. Just not the sole player without any connection to Cersei.

[Gurkhal]

This is possible. Jaime himself has done more damage to his House than all of the Starks combined...

Isn't that a little harsh?

One of my personal favorite crackpot theories is that Jaime will turn his cloak and formally join the Stark cause.

I really don't think that Jaime would sink to directly betraying his House, kin and king like that. If he does he's back in his own egocentric and self-serving way again. I really hope Martin won't pull a move like that.

[Faint]

Isn't that a little harsh?

But also true.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

This is possible. Jaime himself has done more damage to his House than all of the Starks combined...

Not to mention what Tyrion has done. The Lannisters were doomed the moment Tywin died.