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Alfie Allen on Jon Snow's parents


EdThaSt0rm

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I meant in relation to the parentage. It was clearly a follow up to the previous questions about his sister.

I was saying that Alfie didn't mean that there will be a new Luke and Leia situation with a sister of his.

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After ADWD came out, I speculated that Wylla Manderly was Jon's twin sister seperated at birth to hide them. I still hold out belief that Jon is rheagar and Lyanna's son but there is another, a sister. Lyanna was a tough cookie but died in childbirth it is believed, twins might only enhance that probability.

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OK, R+L=J confirmed.

This basically makes it a fact.

I hate how this is making me acknowledge the existence of the SW prequels........but here we go....

Lyanna (Padme) dies in childbirth after her relationship with the "enemy", Rhaegar (Anakin), his adopter Ned (Ben) takes Jon (Luke) back to half of his biological family, where he grows up a normal kid, but feeling out of place.

He goes on a grand adventure, not knowing his parentage, and discovers it at a crucial moment in a huge twist.

It is R+L=J. Alfie Allen has spoiled it.

GRRM might as well have just posted "R+L=J" on his website.

Debate can end now..........mystery revealed.....

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I meant in relation to the parentage. It was clearly a follow up to the previous questions about his sister.

You mean Alfie and Lily Allen are... :eek: ?

Just kidding.

Seriously, that wasn't the smoothest segue from 'who are Jon Snow's parents' to a general discussion of medieval politics and incest. I wonder if he realizes that he even if he didn't say who they are, he still gave away a lot in that interview.

I think there are several ways the Luke Skywalker sort of works with R + L = J. Jon and Luke are motherless (presumed orphaned) sons with extrasensory powers, raised by an Uncle and later go off to join an ancient order of warriors with a strict code of conduct and mentored by more senior warriors. In both cases the foster father (uncle) was killed by the Powers That Be. Luke found out later who his father was, and presumably so will Jon. Luke believed his father was evil and Jon probably has heard the same about Rhaegar. Luke found that his father still had good in him. Jon will probably learn that the cut-and-dried story of rape and kidnapping was not exactly true and there's a more complicated story to Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship.

I don't think knowing the truth about his parentage will matter to Jon's story trajectory anyway. I doubt he's interested in ruling the 7 Kingdoms and he will probably be one or one of several who fight the Others and save the realm. He may fall in love with Danaerys only to discover that she's his aunt which will squick him out because incest in not acceptable according to the values of Northern culture.

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i think people are reading into this too much, when alfie says 'luke skywalker situation' he could simply have meant it will be a big surprise like when Vader revealed he was lukes father, not that a vader-like character will come out and say he's jons father or any other star wars parallel.

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Key quote in all of this, for me, is "It will all come to fruition eventually".

Which basically means that Jon isn't dead. Because, once he dies, his lineage becomes an irrelevance.

Just one thing... Before granting them permission to film, GRRM asked D&D who Jon Snow's parents were, and they gave the correct answer. I seriously, seriously doubt they said Aerys & Lyanna. I mean, how many have people speculated Aerys to be Jon's father at that point? 0.00001%?

Are you sure that they gave the correct answer? GRRM asked them who Jon's parents were, and they gave an answer which convinced GRRM sufficiently that they had read and were fans of the books. I was never convinced that they had to give the correct answer, just a credible/knowledgeable one. Hell, a fair proportion of this community is wrong one way or the other, and nobody would say that that means we're not knowledgeable enough to pass as fans in GRRM's eyes...

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I agree that people are reading too much into Allen's comments. To me it means:

1) As we all guessed, Ned Stark is not Jon Snow's father

2) His parentage will be a big surprise and he is probably part Targaryan

And the most important thing to me is that we know Jon Snow's story continues - that he does not actually die or become UnJon when attacked at the end of DwD. I think that is the most important tidbit to come out of Allen's comments.

I do believe the R+L=J theory is true. Remember how amazed Jon was when Maester Aemon revealed he was a Targaryan? Imagine how Jon would react if he was told he was half Targaryan himself.......too bad Aemon will not be around to know that. He would have liked it.

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Honestly I have no idea why Alfie Allen was told anything. The creators I can see. But anyone else apart from Kit Harrington and Sean Bean? No.

I think that Alfie is a fantastic actor and made S2 but really, he should never have been in this position at all.

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1) Luke Skywalker was getting randy with a family member before realising Leia was a sister

2) His father was evil as fook

3) His father broke his vows to father children

4) He was seperated from his sibling at birth

5) His fathers identity was hidden from him

6) His real power hidden from him until later in his life

It could be any of these! FU GRRM & Alfie Allen!!!. in a nice way of course

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1) Luke Skywalker was getting randy with a family member before realising Leia was a sister

2) His father was evil as fook

3) His father broke his vows to father children

4) He was seperated from his sibling at birth

5) His fathers identity was hidden from him

6) His real power hidden from him until later in his life

It could be any of these! FU GRRM & Alfie Allen!!!. in a nice way of course

1) I think he just had some feelings he couldn't exactly figure out what they were

2) At the end he tried to be good so he is not so evil as one might think

As for the rest I agree with them and they seem to fit Jon so far.

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am i the only one who dind't catch R+L=J while reading the books? i thought at first he was evil.I think GRRM meant him to come out evil till his true identity is unvieled.

though this quote proves that jon and dany both are the chosen one's.

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OK, R+L=J confirmed.

This basically makes it a fact.

I hate how this is making me acknowledge the existence of the SW prequels........but here we go....

Lyanna (Padme) dies in childbirth after her relationship with the "enemy", Rhaegar (Anakin), his adopter Ned (Ben) takes Jon (Luke) back to half of his biological family, where he grows up a normal kid, but feeling out of place.

He goes on a grand adventure, not knowing his parentage, and discovers it at a crucial moment in a huge twist.

I said this before, the adventure will be that to know about his origins (the force) Jon will need to meet Howland Reed (Yoda) in "the Dagobah system" / the crannogs.

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so here's the full paragraph from the interview:

I wonder what to make of the immediate jump from Luke Skywalker to the War of the Roses and Targ incest. Why bring the incest into it as a related thought? He's clearly at least half Stark, so why fixate on Targ incest? I think it's a very strange excerpt, and I wonder how much can be drawn from this. I still believe his father is Rhaegar, and if anything, perhaps it speaks to the fact that his father is someone he wouldn't expect, or that learning his paternity is a dark thing or something like that.

I think he was trying to say that when it comes to monarchies, both in our own history and the history of Westeros, issues of lawful succession were sometimes extremely complicated, especially where bastards were concerned. Along those lines, I believe he was using Targ incest as an example of the steps some ruling families would take in order to ensure that the "purity" of the line was maintained and to stave off any other claims. I could be wrong, but I don't think he was suggesting that Jon was the product of incest.

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When he says it will be Luke Skywalker like, he's basically saying people won't see it coming, and be shocked.

Just like Star Wars.

He doesn't mean Jon's father is alive, and will reveal it directly.

Calm down people.

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possible incest between jon and dany?

But the more i think about it and the tragic figure of Rhaegar, the more i think that it has to be Aerys. I think that Rhaegar was realy in love with Lyanna, but Aerys captured and raped her, forced Rhaegar to fight instead of explaining things to Eddard and making sure he wouldn't plot against him while he held Lyanna as a hostage. This would also explain why so many kings guards were guarding the tower of joy instead of the king, making Lyanna the only thing that ensured that Rhaegar wouldn't revolt against Aerys. So Rhaegar did the only thing he could, he let Robert defeat him in personal combat and thereby turn the tide of the battle and the war in the rebellions favour, because he couldn't save Lyanna, so he made sure that Robert would win and thereby rescue her.

Interesting theory, but I am not sure it is supported by the text.

Remember, Rhaegar took Lyanna at swordpoint and their whereabouts after that are unknown.

According to Ser Barristan, when the rebellion started Aerys could not locate Rhaegar. He showed up at King's Landing several months into the rebellion and took control of Aerys Forces.

If Aerys had ordered Rhaegar to kidnap Lyanna and to stay with her at the TOJ, he would have known where to look for Rhaegar when the rebellion started.

Thus, I believe that Aerys did not know where Rhaegar had gone with Lyanna after her "took her" and he never did find out. As such, he could not have had an opportunity to rape her.

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Seriously, that wasn't the smoothest segue from 'who are Jon Snow's parents' to a general discussion of medieval politics and incest. I wonder if he realizes that he even if he didn't say who they are, he still gave away a lot in that interview.

Yes. I realize that I'm just reiterating what many people are already saying, but I think LadyMary's quote is not only true, but also an enormous hint that the Luke Skywalker analogy was not thought through. As it stands, it could mean anything from "there will be a surprise twist where Jon's parentage is involved" to "Rhaegar is actually alive, and will chop Jon's hand off before revealing Jon is his son." Given Occam's razor, yadda yadda yadda, I'd say that the former is closer to what Alfie was aiming for (perhaps the uncle thing as well).

I wonder what happens when the actors more or less unintentionally venture into spoiler-land. Will Alfie get a stern talking to? ^_^

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I'm on board now with A+L=J, all the way. Someone prove this wrong, or I have no reason to think otherwise at this point.

Then again, considering Alfie's sister once wrote a song urging him to quit smoking so much pot, maybe GRRM knew he could tell "Theon" whatever he wanted, because it would just wind up in a tenuous and garbled metaphor anyway.

I need to get cast as Shitmouth for season 3...

Well, I am not sure A + L = J is supported by the text.

Remember, Rhaegar disappeared after he took Lyanna at swordpoint.

Aerys could not find him when the rebellion started.

Rhaegar returned to KL from the south several months into the rebellion and assumed command of Aerys forces (IIRC this comes from Barristan Selmy).

The fact that Aerys had no idea where Rhaegar was at the start of the rebellion strongly suggests that he did not know where Rhaegar had taken Lyanna. I think it goes without saying that if Aerys did not know where Lyanna was, he could not have raped her and thereby fathered her child.

sorry - this was basically a double post - having problems with the save function

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Well, if we follow the War the Roses reasoning, Henry Tudor (who eventually became King) didn't have a shadow of a claim to the throne: his father was the bastard son of Henry V's French widow and his mother the granddaughter of a bastard of Edward III's third son. Meaning his claim was not only a long shot and through the female line, but illegitimate to boot. Heck, even the King of Spain had a better claim. His throne was won on the battlefield. Perhaps that's where we're headed?

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