Silmarien Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The Walk of Shame was a gender-based form of sexual violence against her. How would other women in ASOIAF react? All of them would break down pretty much the exact same way Cersei did. Yes, that includes Arianne, Asha, Arya, and Brienne.Take a step back from the WOS for a minute and look at how sexual violence has been used in our own human history. It's not chance that rape and gang rape are used as weapons of war in our own present times. It takes away the agency of half the population, it degrades and humiliates the civilians who are caught up in warfare. Comfort women were used during WW2 as another way to not just "take care of" soldiers but to also break the will of civilian populations. I could list countless more examples here but it makes me feel sick to my stomach just to list it all out. But all these, including the WOS, serve the exact same purpose. To break the individual's will, take away their agency, humiliate and degrade them. This isn't just punishment, it's very specifically sexual violence leveled against women. And It Works. Have you ever been around a rape victim or a women who has been sexually assaulted? I have. Cersei's reactions are just that of a rape victim. Oh, and by the way, if you think that you don't know any women who have been raped or sexually assaulted, I can assure you, you do. 40% of women in the US have been the victims of some form of sexual violence.No woman would be immune to what happened to Cersei.This. So this.Can't the men on this thread just chill and agree they probably can't understand what it would be like for women to endure a Walk of Shame? Without calling people feminazis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatjon_umber Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 This. So this.Can't the men on this thread just chill and agree they probably can't understand what it would be like for women to endure a Walk of Shame? Without calling people feminazis? No, the men can't just agree with you because you want it. We're allowed to have our own opinions too, and we're allowed to look at a situation and try and determine for ourselves how it would affect us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I think apart from the Red Wedding, that was the most excruciating thing for me to read in the series, and a lot of horrible things happen in ASOIAF.Got to be honest, I did not appreciate this passage, or the possible connotations of it. Usually I'm GRRM's biggest fangirl, but not that day...I think it would traumatize any female character.I agree with you here. This whole scene is one of the few times I was really and truly disappointed with Martin. I don't know whether to laugh or cry... Both?I'm just numb right now. I don't even know what to say.And we are the sexists?Could somebody please explain that to me?I stand by my words, no woman would be immune to it. Some will recover faster and some slower. Some will show more emotional trauma and some less. Some will display more PTSD than others. But none would emerge from a WOS like that unscathed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 No women would be immune-some may recover faster than others, just as some people would handle losing a hand better than Jaime and some would handle it worse but no one would be unscathed.Yeah, as much as I think that most all-inclusive statements like this are wrong-. In general it is indeed effective "punishment". No one is claiming that people would be immune (or at least I'm not), the thing that people seem to be jumping on is that some people would do better than others, which is absolutely true.The argument seemed to start when people claimed that Arya could ENDURE, not ignore the punishment, which is doubtful but not the same as being immune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Kraken Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I'm sorry, you don't get to speak for all women. Just like I couldn't speak for all men, it's pretty silly you think you can. There are stronger women out there then you, I'm sure, that would be able to endure.No one was suggesting they wouldn't endure, I don't think. She was just saying none of them would go through that experience and not be negatively affected by it some way.I'll just repeat what I said on the first page of the thread...I think it would have been traumatic, on some level, for pretty much every character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatjon_umber Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 No one was suggesting they wouldn't endure, I don't think. She was just saying none of them would go through that experience and not be negatively affected by it some way.I'll just repeat what I said on the first page of the thread...I think it would have been traumatic, on some level, for pretty much every character.I didn't even mention gender.It would affect people, I mean anything affects a person. But not necessarily traumatic. I mean I'm absolutely, without a doubt positive there is someone in the world of Westeros that has seen her fair share of hardship, has been through her own situations and has become her own person. And that person would be immune to the walk of shame simply because they don't care about that aspect of life anymore. Judgement doesn't scare me at all, but I'm a man so I guess my opinion on the subject doesn't count. I however refuse to believe there isn't a woman in Westeros that could have gone through that with her head held high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malgarroth Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yeah, as much as I think that most all-inclusive statements like this are wrong-. In general it is indeed effective "punishment". No one is claiming that people would be immune (or at least I'm not), the thing that people seem to be jumping on is that some people would do better than others, which is absolutely true.The argument seemed to start when people claimed that Arya could ENDURE, not ignore the punishment, which is doubtful but not the same as being immune.Exactly, of course it would affect her in some way, but she is fundamentally different to any other female in the books, I see her just going through the motions adding "The High Septon" to her list and getting bitter about it. I honestly don't see her shedding a single tear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling Mad Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I think the only female character who wouldn't give a damn is Arya.She doesn't care what people think of her, she has no sexual identity to speak of (being 11 and hating most people) so she'd have few hangups there, the soles of her feet are so tough she could probably walk the Wall barefoot.Arya already has one naked public encounter in AGoT when she accidently walks outside the city walls through the sewer. She strips ans washes her clothes in the river while people ride by watching her. Arya's reaction is akin to Steve McQueen cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Kraken Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 It would affect people, I mean anything affects a person. But not necessarily traumatic. I mean I'm absolutely, without a doubt positive there is someone in the world of Westeros that has seen her fair share of hardship, has been through her own situations and has become her own person. And that person would be immune to the walk of shame simply because they don't care about that aspect of life anymore. Judgement doesn't scare me at all, but I'm a man so I guess my opinion on the subject doesn't count. I however refuse to believe there isn't a woman in Westeros that could have gone through that with her head held high.I'm not refusing to believe that either. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was. But I still think it would be a traumatic memory for anyone. Definition of traumatic I'm personally using: "Emotionally disturbing or distressing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Arya already has one naked public encounter in AGoT when she accidently walks outside the city walls through the sewer. She strips ans washes her clothes in the river while people ride by watching her. Arya's reaction is akin to Steve McQueen cool.Yeah, but she wasn't being jeered at by a bunch of jealous, unruly commoners.That said, she also doesn't have her self-esteem tied up in her body either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 [mod] Closing this sorry-ass trainwreck of a thread. [/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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