Will Arya end up killing Sansa

[Ice Turtle]

Wow, imagine the tragedy: Arya is sent to kill Alayne Stone because she's becomming too powerful, gathering behind her The Vale, the North and the Riverlands.

So the Tyrells / Aegon / Lannisters / anybody, hire a Faceless Man to kill her... and Arya doesnt recognize Sansa...

She would made a very poor FM if she didn't recognize Sansa just because she dyed her hair.

[Valyrian Breakdancing]

How is Sansa headed for the dark side, "clearly" or not?

Especially if you compare her to Arya (amoral assassin in training) or even possibly Bran (depending on what he's trained to do or ends up doing) or Rickon (possible feral cannibal)?

Arya - In training, as you say. And thus far she's managed to resist turning into an amoral sociopath and doesn't seem to be likely to change. She was always a more willful character, whilst Sansa was naive and malleable.

Bran - No substantial evidence that he's about to do something horrible in nature there, then.

Rickon - Or just as likely a meal for a possible feral cannibal. Besides, I think the whole notion of Skagos being cannibalistic is either untrue or exaggerated.

So really, nothing suggests that any of these 3 particular Starks are about to do something abhorrent or unforgivable.

Whereas Sansa is being groomed by Littlefinger, who isn't exactly the most moral or honourable or kind person. Its only a matter of time before she's learned enough from him to realise he is no longer necessary, or indeed is in fact a hindrance to her and that getting him out of the picture (or anyone else in her way, for that matter) is a step towards gaining some independence.

Sansa has spent the entirety of the series being bullied and manipulated, but she's slowly learning how to do so herself now, and one can only imagine the rage and bitterness festering inside her.

She will become dangerous. Her and Littlefinger's dynamic is practically akin to Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine, and that didn't go so well for the evil bastard in charge either.

[Ser Hippie]

Arya - In training, as you say. And thus far she's managed to resist turning into an amoral sociopath and doesn't seem to be likely to change. She was always a more willful character, whilst Sansa was naive and malleable.

You mean like murdering the Bolton soldier (ostensibly a man fighting for her brother) or killing Daeron from the Night's Watch? And, even ignoring those killings, orders of assassins are not generally known for upholding morality over their more pragmatic goals.

Bran - No substantial evidence that he's about to do something horrible in nature there, then.

We know that Bloodraven/the Children are either controlling or have some kind of hold over Coldhands, an undead creature. We also have no way of knowing what their specific goals and methods for achieving said goals are. Old northern practices included blood sacrifices, for example. This doesn't mean Bran is destined for darkness or evil, but there are reasons to wonder what he's going to be doing.

Rickon - Or just as likely a meal for a possible feral cannibal. Besides, I think the whole notion of Skagos being cannibalistic is either untrue or exaggerated.

Maybe yes, maybe not. I was taking issue with the fact Sansa was clearly headed down a dark path compared to the other Stark children. I think only Arya really is a threat to do so, frankly.

Whereas Sansa is being groomed by Littlefinger, who isn't exactly the most moral or honourable or kind person. Its only a matter of time before she's learned enough from him to realise he is no longer necessary, or indeed is in fact a hindrance to her and that getting him out of the picture (or anyone else in her way, for that matter) is a step towards gaining some independence.

Sansa has spent the entirety of the series being bullied and manipulated, but she's slowly learning how to do so herself now, and one can only imagine the rage and bitterness festering inside her.

Only we have Sansa's PoVs to read and she's not full of rage or bitterness; she wants to go home and she wants to be with what remains of her family. She's made uncomfortable by LF's advances on her (especially the blatantly physical ones), and all her time with dishonorable and cruel people in King's Landing didn't turn her into a cruel person herself. Learning to manipulate people doesn't make her "dark", unless you think only Baelor the Blessed could qualify as a good person (or, I guess, someone like Ned when he decided to tell Cersei he knew about her children).

She will become dangerous. Her and Littlefinger's dynamic is practically akin to Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine, and that didn't go so well for the evil bastard in charge either.

Yeah, I don't see much, if anything, of Darth Vader in Sansa.

[Valyrian Breakdancing]

You mean like murdering the Bolton soldier (ostensibly a man fighting for her brother) or killing Daeron from the Night's Watch? And, even ignoring those killings, orders of assassins are not generally known for upholding morality over their more pragmatic goals.

We know that Bloodraven/the Children are either controlling or have some kind of hold over Coldhands, an undead creature. We also have no way of knowing what their specific goals and methods for achieving said goals are. Old northern practices included blood sacrifices, for example. This doesn't mean Bran is destined for darkness or evil, but there are reasons to wonder what he's going to be doing.

Maybe yes, maybe not. I was taking issue with the fact Sansa was clearly headed down a dark path compared to the other Stark children. I think only Arya really is a threat to do so, frankly.

Only we have Sansa's PoVs to read and she's not full of rage or bitterness; she wants to go home and she wants to be with what remains of her family. She's made uncomfortable by LF's advances on her (especially the blatantly physical ones), and all her time with dishonorable and cruel people in King's Landing didn't turn her into a cruel person herself. Learning to manipulate people doesn't make her "dark", unless you think only Baelor the Blessed could qualify as a good person (or, I guess, someone like Ned when he decided to tell Cersei he knew about her children).

Yeah, I don't see much, if anything, of Darth Vader in Sansa.

Arya is a pragmatic killer, and fairly right wing to boot, none of her killings have exactly been the product of psychotic blood lust (other than, perhaps, The Tickler. And even that was still a necessity).

The way Martin deals with killing and violence is completely matter-of-fact, he's said as much himself, he just wants you to understand how simply it came for people back when our world was a little more like theirs.

With this in mind, I believe the closest Arya would come to the dark side would be a severe case of PTSD, maybe as far as a few psychotic episodes or a personality disorder, but no clearly defined acts of wanton evil.

We don't know that Bloodraven/the Children have control of Coldhands, even though I do believe this to be the case. And as you say we don't know anything of their motivations either, so arguing over such is entirely moot.

And I'm saying Sansa has the greatest potential to become corrupted/selfish/"evil", if you will. Not that she already is.

But her experiences and current situation still make her the most likely candidate, and I think a fair amount of people on here would agree with that. There's still 2 books left after all; lots of room for change, and she doesn't need more than a slight push to send her over the edge... Say, the eventual realisation that for whatever reason she cant go home. Besides, as far as she's concerned the only living member of her family is Jon Snow and even that may seem tentative to her.

And it was merely an analogy to compare her to Darth Vader, I'm just saying the usual pattern for selfish, vindictive, opportunistic people training someone in their ways of evil and manipulation is for it not to turn out to well for the mentor, to paraphrase Spock: Its only logical.

[Ser Hippie]

Arya is a pragmatic killer, and fairly right wing to boot, none of her killings have exactly been the product of psychotic blood lust (other than, perhaps, The Tickler. And even that was still a necessity).

What does being psychotic have to do with anything? We're talking about the Stark children being on a "dark path". You don't think killing one of her brother's soldiers (leaving aside the Tickler/Daeron) is a dark thing to do?

The way Martin deals with killing and violence is completely matter-of-fact, he's said as much himself, he just wants you to understand how simply it came for people back when our world was a little more like theirs. With this in mind, I believe the closest Arya would come to the dark side would be a severe case of PTSD, maybe as far as a few psychotic episodes or a personality disorder, but no clearly defined acts of wanton evil.

I'm genuinely curious - how is what Arya has done and is likely to do (being an assassin in training after all) less likely to cause her to go "dark" than Sansa?

We don't know that Bloodraven/the Children have control of Coldhands, even though I do believe this to be the case. And as you say we don't know anything of their motivations either, so arguing over such is entirely moot.

How is extrapolating other characters moot when you're using what you think Sansa might do at some point in the future to argue she's more likely to go bad than her sister who's already killed people and is training to be an assassin?

And I'm saying Sansa has the greatest potential to become corrupted/selfish/"evil", if you will. Not that she already is.

But her experiences and current situation still make her the most likely candidate, and I think a fair amount of people on here would agree with that. There's still 2 books left after all; lots of room for change, and she doesn't need more than a slight push to send her over the edge... Say, the eventual realisation that for whatever reason she cant go home. Besides, as far as she's concerned the only living member of her family is Jon Snow and even that may seem tentative to her.

What makes her most likely? Your entire argument seems to be that being in the vicinity of LF as a mentor will necessarily make her go bad, despite the fact she didn't do so in King's Landing, her PoV chapters telling us she wants her home/family not to manipulate her way to the top, that despite her annoyance with Sweetrobin, she still takes care of him, etc. Is there a real argument for Sansa being the "clear" choice to go bad among the Stark children beyond her being in close proximity to LF?

Sansa doesn't display interest in political manipulations, she specifically wants family, home, to feel safe, basically everything that LF isn't offering her (power, revenge, etc.) - when in KL she didn't become a manipulative or dark person; in fact she remained polite, kind and gentle. She's perfectly capable of becoming a savvy person without going bad.

On top of that, you're adding the further argument that Sansa is more likely to do bad things than Arya despite the fact Arya has already killed multiple people, not always for good reasons, and is training to be a professional killer.

And it was merely an analogy to compare her to Darth Vader, I'm just saying the usual pattern for selfish, vindictive, opportunistic people training someone in their ways of evil and manipulation is for it not to turn out to well for the mentor, to paraphrase Spock: Its only logical.

It's also a bad analogy because Darth Vader wasn't corrupted because having a treacherous/evil "mentor" (and I put it in quotes because I very much doubt Sansa actually wants to emulate LF anyway) doesn't just inherently cause the underling to go evil. Anakin Skywalker was also corrupted because of his particular personality and history that left him vulnerable to the Emperor (to say nothing of the metaphysics of the Force itself). Sansa didn't seem particularly inclined to turn evil having spent time with Cersei, why is she suddenly going to go bad?

[Kittykatknits]

No, she won't kill her sister. Their arguing strikes me as fairly typical sibling rivarly. When they do meet again, and not if, I foresee a positive reunion. They have lost their family and their home, I'd even say they will become very close.

Also, and I don't know why more people don't see this, but if you take a step back and looking at their broader story lines, they are actually running in parallel to each other.

- Both were suddenly on their own, taken away from their family.

- Both have had their innocence taken away. Remember, Arya is a romantic, just in a different way than Sansa. She has a very strong sense of right and wrong and a belief in a particular type of justice. However, she has seen how little that matters in Westeros.

- Both have been abused and victimized, Sansa while at KL and Arya while at Harrenhal.

- Both sisters have also also learned how to blend in and hide. Arya was the ghost of Harrenhal and became Weasel for awhile. Sansa was the insipid little bird that everyone dismissed. She is now in hiding as Alayne Stone.

- Both sisters were mentored and protected to some degree by Sandor Clegane

- Both have drawn strength from WF and their Stark heritage. Arya has kept Needle and Sansa has turned to the old gods more and more. Both remember what it is to be a Wolf many times as well.

- Finally, both are now in training to further their skills. As much as I miss Ned, his death has allowed both his daughters to reach their potential in a way that would never have been possible.

- Both have mentors with rather dubious motives, LF and the Kindly Man.

- Both are learning many of the same skills - how to lie, how to hide your emotions, how to read people....

Really, I could go one. Frankly, out of all the possibilities that Martin may take this story, I'd say Arya killing her sister is pretty close to the bottom of the list. They are developing in parallel to each other in such a way that their skills will complement each other. I can't not wait until they are reunited.

[ARYa_Nym]

Roose threatened to cut her tongue out. Roose was also hunting wolves. He was going to give Harrenhal to the Bloody Mummers and she knew this so she was desperate to escape from Vargo Hoat and his men.

The soldier could have been a good or bad person but she wanted to escape. I think there's more argument for Daeron or the insurance man rather than her wanting to kill one of Robb's supposed men. Roose was suspect and she knew this. It's probably why she didn't reveal herself to him.

[Ser Hippie]

I'm not saying Arya is definitively evil or even going to turn evil. I was questioning how Sansa is more likely to turn out bad/evil than Arya given that Sansa's PoV chapters show no real desire to turn into a female LF or power-player and Arya's already killed multiple people and is training to be an assassin.

[Nymeria's]

Please, for the love of the Seven, no more Stark deaths. Especially Stark killing Stark. I would set the book on fire and never read again.

My heart cannot take that.

[MacHawk]

What does being psychotic have to do with anything? We're talking about the Stark children being on a "dark path". You don't think killing one of her brother's soldiers (leaving aside the Tickler/Daeron) is a dark thing to do?

I'm genuinely curious - how is what Arya has done and is likely to do (being an assassin in training after all) less likely to cause her to go "dark" than Sansa?

How is extrapolating other characters moot when you're using what you think Sansa might do at some point in the future to argue she's more likely to go bad than her sister who's already killed people and is training to be an assassin?

What makes her most likely? Your entire argument seems to be that being in the vicinity of LF as a mentor will necessarily make her go bad, despite the fact she didn't do so in King's Landing, her PoV chapters telling us she wants her home/family not to manipulate her way to the top, that despite her annoyance with Sweetrobin, she still takes care of him, etc. Is there a real argument for Sansa being the "clear" choice to go bad among the Stark children beyond her being in close proximity to LF?

Sansa doesn't display interest in political manipulations, she specifically wants family, home, to feel safe, basically everything that LF isn't offering her (power, revenge, etc.) - when in KL she didn't become a manipulative or dark person; in fact she remained polite, kind and gentle. She's perfectly capable of becoming a savvy person without going bad.

On top of that, you're adding the further argument that Sansa is more likely to do bad things than Arya despite the fact Arya has already killed multiple people, not always for good reasons, and is training to be a professional killer.

It's also a bad analogy because Darth Vader wasn't corrupted because having a treacherous/evil "mentor" (and I put it in quotes because I very much doubt Sansa actually wants to emulate LF anyway) doesn't just inherently cause the underling to go evil. Anakin Skywalker was also corrupted because of his particular personality and history that left him vulnerable to the Emperor (to say nothing of the metaphysics of the Force itself). Sansa didn't seem particularly inclined to turn evil having spent time with Cersei, why is she suddenly going to go bad?

I think you are wrong. Arya, while being ruthless, is driven by her own "code". She wants revenge on those who have wronged her family. Sansa, on the other hand, is a bit of an airhead whose only vision ofbeing a perfect princess has been ground into the dirt of Kings Landing real politik. right now she is a gullible and malleable little girl within the grasp of probably the most evil arch manipulater in the story. She may well (not certainly though) go down, down and become a kind of Cersei type 2. After all, the person who gave her the most "guidance" in KL was Cersei. Badass and fiercely loyal Arya just aint gonna like her sister any more and probably a whole lot less than she did before

[Valyrian Breakdancing]

What does being psychotic have to do with anything? We're talking about the Stark children being on a "dark path". You don't think killing one of her brother's soldiers (leaving aside the Tickler/Daeron) is a dark thing to do?

I'm genuinely curious - how is what Arya has done and is likely to do (being an assassin in training after all) less likely to cause her to go "dark" than Sansa?

How is extrapolating other characters moot when you're using what you think Sansa might do at some point in the future to argue she's more likely to go bad than her sister who's already killed people and is training to be an assassin?

What makes her most likely? Your entire argument seems to be that being in the vicinity of LF as a mentor will necessarily make her go bad, despite the fact she didn't do so in King's Landing, her PoV chapters telling us she wants her home/family not to manipulate her way to the top, that despite her annoyance with Sweetrobin, she still takes care of him, etc. Is there a real argument for Sansa being the "clear" choice to go bad among the Stark children beyond her being in close proximity to LF?

Sansa doesn't display interest in political manipulations, she specifically wants family, home, to feel safe, basically everything that LF isn't offering her (power, revenge, etc.) - when in KL she didn't become a manipulative or dark person; in fact she remained polite, kind and gentle. She's perfectly capable of becoming a savvy person without going bad.

On top of that, you're adding the further argument that Sansa is more likely to do bad things than Arya despite the fact Arya has already killed multiple people, not always for good reasons, and is training to be a professional killer.

It's also a bad analogy because Darth Vader wasn't corrupted because having a treacherous/evil "mentor" (and I put it in quotes because I very much doubt Sansa actually wants to emulate LF anyway) doesn't just inherently cause the underling to go evil. Anakin Skywalker was also corrupted because of his particular personality and history that left him vulnerable to the Emperor (to say nothing of the metaphysics of the Force itself). Sansa didn't seem particularly inclined to turn evil having spent time with Cersei, why is she suddenly going to go bad?

Dude you're literally just rehashing the same argument.

"Arya kills, therefore she must be most likely to be evil"

"Sansa wants to go home and must therefore only ever want to go home"

As for Bran, what you're engaging in there is speculation; not extrapolation. You've said yourself that neither Bloodraven nor the Childrens motivations have become clear, despite all the fervent extrapolation on your part.

Sansa had no opportunity to grow or learn or change or adapt in Kings Landing, she was a prisoner right up until she got on the boat with Dontos. Then once she reached Littlefinger, she was his.

Besides, Cersei was just a bully to her and her even bigger bully of a son cut her dads head off. Why would she want to emulate any Lannister after that?

Im not saying Sansa just being near Littlefinger is going to infect her with evil, but during AFFC she starts to become more insightful and calculating.

Maybe she is still compassionate and naive and homesick, but all that could take a backseat once she starts to see the bigger picture more clearly, which she is starting to do.

All I'm saying is she has the greatest potential, Arya may be training to be a killer but she's clearly resisting becoming emotionally and morally dead inside, and even if she didn't; that would make her neither good or bad. She would exist in a moral limbo. Plus Arya has no political savvy whatsoever and isn't likely to be learning such anytime soon. She can only kill one person at a time, if Sansa were to embrace the path of power she's been put on (assuming this marriage happens) she could, in theory, send thousands of men off to die or kill thousands more.

And please stop grinding on the analogy, dude. It was meant to be affable and lighthearted in nature, and now you're dragging the meta-fucking-physical nature of the Force into proceedings where it really wasn't needed.

Also, I get it. You put things in quotations as you find them to be dubious in nature, repeat quotations are just unnecessarily condescending and frankly start to blur the line between engaging in a spirited dialogue with another fan of a great work and arguing pointless semantics with an angry nerd. That just brings the whole process down for everyone.

[Valyrian Breakdancing]

I think you are wrong. Arya, while being ruthless, is driven by her own "code". She wants revenge on those who have wronged her family. Sansa, on the other hand, is a bit of an airhead whose only vision ofbeing a perfect princess has been ground into the dirt of Kings Landing real politik. right now she is a gullible and malleable little girl within the grasp of probably the most evil arch manipulater in the story. She may well (not certainly though) go down, down and become a kind of Cersei type 2. After all, the person who gave her the most "guidance" in KL was Cersei. Badass and fiercely loyal Arya just aint gonna like her sister any more and probably a whole lot less than she did before

-holds out fist-

I insist that you bump this.

Except for the whole Arya killing Sansa thing. Sorry, man but I remain unconvinced :P

[MacHawk]

-holds out fist-

I insist that you bump this.

Except for the whole Arya killing Sansa thing. Sorry, man but I remain unconvinced :P

No way...am having too much fun with it

[Silmarien]

Wow, imagine the tragedy: Arya is sent to kill Alayne Stone because she's becomming too powerful, gathering behind her The Vale, the North and the Riverlands.

So the Tyrells / Aegon / Lannisters / anybody, hire a Faceless Man to kill her... and Arya doesnt recognize Sansa...

True, Arya doesn't know "Alayne Stone" but Sansa specifically says she is running out of the hair dye from Myr or Lys or whatever in her POV. So she won't have enough for Arya to cross the Narrow Sea to get to her.

Or I hope she doesn't....

:crying: :crying: :crying:

[Kittykatknits]

And I'm saying Sansa has the greatest potential to become corrupted/selfish/"evil", if you will. Not that she already is.

But her experiences and current situation still make her the most likely candidate, and I think a fair amount of people on here would agree with that. There's still 2 books left after all; lots of room for change, and she doesn't need more than a slight push to send her over the edge... Say, the eventual realisation that for whatever reason she cant go home. Besides, as far as she's concerned the only living member of her family is Jon Snow and even that may seem tentative to her.

Can you offer any textual evidence to support your position that she is the most likely to turn evil? Sansa is a very compassionate and kind person, she even displays empathy to thoe who should be her enemies:

- She comforts Lancel during the BBW, knowing that he once cheered in her being beaten.

- Comforts the Hound twice, once during the Hands tourney and again during the BBW.

- Comforts Jeyne Poole after her father is arrested.

- Cheers on Tommen at King Turd's nameday tourney, giving him courage

- Again, gives courage to Tommen when his sister sails off to Dorne.

- Comforts the women during the BBW after Cersei, the queen flees

- States she would give food to the small folk of KL if she had it

- Assists Lollys during the BBW

- States that Tyrion was kind to her, even though he forced her to marry him and was complicit in keeping her a hostage.

- Became a surrogate mother to her cousin

And note, almost all of the above happened while she was in KL, the place that was most likely to break if she does.

Beyond that, look at what she is thinking when around LF. She doesn't trust him at all, she is lying to him, remember lies and Arbor Gold? She wants to get away from him but feels there is no one she can trust or turn to in order to get away. And who can blame her considering everything she has been through?

Finally, Sansa is very much her father's daughter. She displays the same sense of compassion and honor that he does. She has a strong sense of right and wrong. She is one of the very few POV characters that has never actually killed anyone. She thinks of her family, home. and Winterfell. As to Jon, she misses him and wishes that she could see him again.

There is no sign in any of this that she is turning dark or evil. None. I don't see how you can draw this conclusion at all.

[Valyrian Breakdancing]

Can you offer any textual evidence to support your position that she is the most likely to turn evil? Sansa is a very compassionate and kind person, she even displays empathy to thoe who should be her enemies:

- She comforts Lancel during the BBW, knowing that he once cheered in her being beaten.

- Comforts the Hound twice, once during the Hands tourney and again during the BBW.

- Comforts Jeyne Poole after her father is arrested.

- Cheers on Tommen at King Turd's nameday tourney, giving him courage

- Again, gives courage to Tommen when his sister sails off to Dorne.

- Comforts the women during the BBW after Cersei, the queen flees

- States she would give food to the small folk of KL if she had it

- Assists Lollys during the BBW

- States that Tyrion was kind to her, even though he forced her to marry him and was complicit in keeping her a hostage.

- Became a surrogate mother to her cousin

And note, almost all of the above happened while she was in KL, the place that was most likely to break if she does.

Beyond that, look at what she is thinking when around LF. She doesn't trust him at all, she is lying to him, remember lies and Arbor Gold? She wants to get away from him but feels there is no one she can trust or turn to in order to get away. And who can blame her considering everything she has been through?

Finally, Sansa is very much her father's daughter. She displays the same sense of compassion and honor that he does. She has a strong sense of right and wrong. She is one of the very few POV characters that has never actually killed anyone. She thinks of her family, home. and Winterfell. As to Jon, she misses him and wishes that she could see him again.

There is no sign in any of this that she is turning dark or evil. None. I don't see how you can draw this conclusion at all.

Im finding it hard to fathom why no-one can see the distinction between someone turning evil and someone with the greatest potential to turn evil.

She's been through the most changes and most traumatic events, Arya was always stronger than her and now she's discovered her capacity for killing she can keep herself safe and if she chooses, honest.

As you've said, Sansa lies to Littlefinger and as I've said; there is an obvious increase in her intelligence and awareness which suggests that Littlefinger may even believe the odd lie of hers here and there, whereas back in Kings Landing where she was purely terrified most of the time, she was unable to lie convincingly to anyone, or at least most of her lies were seen through fairly easily.

And again, same as Ser Hippie you state that as she has not bloodied her hands she must lack the capacity for evil. This just seems purely naive to me, especially in Martins world where as I said before, violence/death is an everyday part of life and indeed can still be a completely "honourable" affair.

Just to recap, again: I believe Sansa has the greatest capacity for misdeeds/selfishness/opportunism, not that she is in any way conducting herself in such a manner yet.

[Ser Hippie]

I think you are wrong. Arya, while being ruthless, is driven by her own "code". She wants revenge on those who have wronged her family.

Because Daeron, the fraudulent insurance man and the random Bolton guard wronged her family? Again, I'm not saying Arya is evil or is necessarily going to be evil, but let's not sugarcoat the fact she's killed multiple times and is training to be a professional assassin. Generally, hired killers tend to be pretty dark.

Sansa, on the other hand, is a bit of an airhead whose only vision ofbeing a perfect princess has been ground into the dirt of Kings Landing real politik. right now she is a gullible and malleable little girl within the grasp of probably the most evil arch manipulater in the story.

She's so gullible she made the point that LF has two personalities - Petyr (who is kind to her, gracious, and friendly) and Littlefinger, the manipulative plotter. She's hardly the airhead she was in AGOT.

She may well (not certainly though) go down, down and become a kind of Cersei type 2. After all, the person who gave her the most "guidance" in KL was Cersei.

And yet, she's not at all like Cersei despite it...

Dude you're literally just rehashing the same argument.

"Arya kills, therefore she must be most likely to be evil"

"Sansa wants to go home and must therefore only ever want to go home"

That's because I've asked you to clarify your argument and you haven't. Your stance is "Sansa is around LF who is a manipulative guy, therefore Sansa is clearly going to go bad", with the addendum that she's more likely to do so than Arya, who's actually killing people and being trained (willingly) as an assassin. Until you provide some textual or logical backing for your argument, I don't know how to proceed from "can you explain your actual argument".

As for Bran, what you're engaging in there is speculation; not extrapolation. You've said yourself that neither Bloodraven nor the Childrens motivations have become clear, despite all the fervent extrapolation on your part.

And you're engaged in "fervent" speculation with regards to Sansa given that you're ignoring textual references and her PoV chapters because they don't fit into the "Sansa as ASOIAF's Darth Vader" theory.

Sansa had no opportunity to grow or learn or change or adapt in Kings Landing, she was a prisoner right up until she got on the boat with Dontos.

What? Sansa doesn't grow or learn in King's Landing?

Then once she reached Littlefinger, she was his. Besides, Cersei was just a bully to her and her even bigger bully of a son cut her dads head off. Why would she want to emulate any Lannister after that?

And in her PoV chapters she explicitly notes that LF is manipulative, not necessarily trustworthy and makes her uncomfortable because of how he acts towards her. He also tries to entice her with a major power play when she doesn't want to have power or be important, she wants family, home, safety. Why would she want to emulate him, again?

Im not saying Sansa just being near Littlefinger is going to infect her with evil, but during AFFC she starts to become more insightful and calculating. Maybe she is still compassionate and naive and homesick, but all that could take a backseat once she starts to see the bigger picture more clearly, which she is starting to do.

See above. Not only is "becoming more insightful and calculating" a dubious argument to make given your overall position (i.e. it means she also sees right through LF on several occasions), your second sentence is nothing more than a guess. She did want to be a proper lady w/regards to the Westerosi power structure back in GOT but where is the evidence this is even remotely a goal any more?

All I'm saying is she has the greatest potential, Arya may be training to be a killer but she's clearly resisting becoming emotionally and morally dead inside, and even if she didn't; that would make her neither good or bad. She would exist in a moral limbo. Plus Arya has no political savvy whatsoever and isn't likely to be learning such anytime soon.

So an assassin who's already killed multiple people at a young age being trained by (arguably) the most fearsome of organizations among hitmen isn't a "dark path" but being "insightful and calculating" is?

She can only kill one person at a time, if Sansa were to embrace the path of power she's been put on (assuming this marriage happens) she could, in theory, send thousands of men off to die or kill thousands more.

Yes, except this theory doesn't have any real textual evidence. What reason do you have to argue that Sansa is going to consider sending thousands of people to die so she can become Queen of the North/Vale/Riverlands?

And please stop grinding on the analogy, dude. It was meant to be affable and lighthearted in nature, and now you're dragging the meta-fucking-physical nature of the Force into proceedings where it really wasn't needed.

It was a bad analogy but it also was largely the same as your general argument (that LF is Sansa's mentor and because of that he'll corrupt her and turn her evil), and I was pointing out that the specifics are very different. I'm not sure why you're getting so upset, because I wasn't attacking you, only an idea that gets tossed around a lot. Sansa being trained by LF doesn't mean she's going to go evil as a matter of course because she's a very different type of person than those that are often in her position (Anakin, for example, was being manipulated with the threat of Padme's death, his rage over his mother's death, and his incessant desire to become more powerful, etc.).

Also, I get it. You put things in quotations as you find them to be dubious in nature, repeat quotations are just unnecessarily condescending and frankly start to blur the line between engaging in a spirited dialogue with another fan of a great work and arguing pointless semantics with an angry nerd. That just brings the whole process down for everyone.

It's sort of strange you're launching into the angry nerd ad hominem when all I've done is repeatedly ask two questions. Someone disagreeing with you doesn't mean they're some angry nerd trying to destroy your place on the forum and since, after reading your latest post, it seems like you misstated your argument (which I still disagree with, but at least now seems more like speculation rather than an unfounded conclusion), I'm not sure why you're so angry.

I've asked two major questions in response:

(1) How Sansa is "clearly" going down a dark path based on nothing but speculation while Arya hasn't and is just sort of in moral limbo?

(2) What textual evidence (not "hey this could happen") is there that Sansa is not only going to get unduly influences by LF but also act on it?

As it is, your argument seems to be "Sansa might be in a position to do a lot of evil and so she's clearly going to because of LF's influence" but there's not much reasoning for why this will happen. It's speculation unsupported by the text, which is why I've been questioning it.

You said

Clearly Sansa is headed for the dark side, and I do also believe she's got 'dead meat' written all over her.

and

Sansa has spent the entirety of the series being bullied and manipulated, but she's slowly learning how to do so herself now, and one can only imagine the rage and bitterness festering inside her.

Which simply aren't supported by the text. The latter, especially, is very clearly not reflected by her PoV.

[genegirl]

This will not happen, the Faceless do not kill people they know, beside Arya and Sansa love each other,

[MacHawk]

I don't think she can kill her on assignment from the FM since she knows her.

Sansa said to Arya:

When Ned gives Arya Needle:

The Hound thought:

She can kill people she knows while not acting as a FM but I don't think it will happen.

To Ser Hippie - this post from the previous page gives you some good quotes - but no, we are not trying to draw conclusions but exploring the possibility which is, pretty much, what everone is doing with all these posts anyway

[MacHawk]

the quoted text did not come through in above post so just go back to page one and read "Arya Nims" post