Greyscale returns to Westeros!

[David C. Hunter]

I believe Greyscale will play a pivotal role in the next two books.

Jon Connington has Grey Scale now and is with Prince Aegon and the Golden Company at Storm's End.

What foreseeable consequences do yall believe will happen because of this mistake''

Will their be an epidemic? Will Aegon contract it? Is there any prophecy that hints to this?

[Little Miss Sunshine]

I believe Greyscale will play a pivotal role in the next two books.

Jon Connington has Grey Scale now and is with Prince Aegon and the Golden Company at Storm's End.

What foreseeable consequences do yall believe will happen because of this mistake''

Will their be an epidemic? Will Aegon contract it? Is there any prophecy that hints to this?

I believe that, on JonCon's case, having Greyscale just urged him to bring Aegon to Westeros and do what was bid of them ASAP. He knows he won't have much time left to help the boy. The only major consequence I can see is Aegon loosing his closest protector, and having to lead his war by himself (yes I know he stil has Varys and Ilyrio, but still).

However, if you are interested in debating Greyscale and its possible consequence for the plot in the long term, you still have Shireen (who's been scarred by the disease) and Val's freak-out reaction ;)

EDITED for grammar

[Tumnas the Torpid]

Will their be an epidemic? Will Aegon contract it? Is there any prophecy that hints to this?

I believe some have suggested that the stone "dragon breathing shadow fire", or whatever was said/seen in the House of the Undying like that, may represent a greyscale epidemic. I don't know if anyone has mentioned Aegon in connection with this, but the dragon motif might fit that interpretation.

Or the stone dragon might be connected to (Bran and) Summer's vision in Winterfell, or living under the Wall, or Tormund Hornblower's member.

[Manderly is Boss]

So is Aegon going to become the stone dragon hanging out with Jon Connington? Also not to over-analyse too much but with greyscale primarily occurring in cold damp conditions, does that make Storm's End a prime environment for a Greyscale outbreak?

[Ice Turtle]

Stone dragon is either Shireen or Aegon.

[total1402]

How does greyscale spread. Presumably its just by touch, but thats hardly going to cause an epidemic, even if a lot of the Targs and Connington become carriers of the disease. Plus it seems to be taking a long time to effect JC. Unless there is a more virulent strain and it somehow become sable to transmit itself faster I don't see how a Black Death style epidemic could happen. The Red Flux seems like a more likely candidate for that. Unless some group introdced magic or the Others presence somehow powers the Greyscla eto become more deadly. I also suppose that low on food and in winter greyscale would have much weaker victims and thats when disease victims die in the greatest numbers.

[ARYa_Nym]

There are three different forms of greyscale. Shireen is actually immune to the other two deadly versions. She may die from the stone beast or from real dragons eating her.

The curse was oft seen in children, especially in damp, cold climes. The afflicted flesh stiffened, calcified, and cracked, though the dwarf had read that greyscale's progress could be stayed by limes, mustard poultices, and scalding hot baths (the maesters said) or by prayer, sacrifice, and fasting (the septons insisted). Then the disease passed, leaving its young victims disfigured but alive. Maesters and septons alike agreed that children marked by greyscale could never be touched by the rarer mortal form of the affliction, nor by its terrible swift cousin, the grey plague. 'Damp is said to be the culprit,' he said. 'Foul humors in the air. Not curses.'"

Connington has the mortal version. Anyone in close contact with him is in danger. The time it takes to die varies. It could be less than a year at least and 10 years at most.

"Death, but slow. I still have time. A year. Two years. Five. Some stone men live for ten."

The mortal version can cause blindness.

Many a man had sacrificed one arm or foot, only to find another going grey. Once that happened, hope was gone. Blindness was common when the stone reached the face. In the final stages the curse turned inward, to muscles, bones, and inner organs."

Some believe that Shireen might be a carrier for the grey plague based on what Val said but she could be wrong since wildlings automatically kill children with it.

"...and the grey death. We slew the oarsmen as the came ashore, and burned the ship at anchor, but the rats crept down the oars and paddled to the quay on cold stone feet. The plague took two thousand before it ran it's course."

[Night Gathers]

If Aegon is the real deal, he won't be affected since he's a Targaryen. If I remember correctly they can't catch diseases.

ETA: I can't believe I thought this, I was so green back then...

[total1402]

Ah, so the Grey Plague is the Black Death version...

I pity Westeros.

Do you think this will make the sparrows and fire-worshippers go nuts and start flaggelating themselves like during the actual Balck Death?

I think Val was over-reacting. We would have seen some word of Grey Plague in Dragonstone or before now if that were the case. Its more to put in our minds just how threatening this plague can be and it might imply that in colder climates the plague is much more devastating enough to make the wildlings react so severely. Plus I kinda like Shereen and feel a little sorry even for Stannis's wife. JC has the active version and could well be a carrier for the deadly Grey Plague.

[ARYa_Nym]

If Aegon is the real deal, he won't be affected since he's a Targaryen. If I remember correctly they can't catch diseases.

The Great Spring Sickness killed Daeron the Good, Prince Valarr, and Matarys.

The only ones immune are those with plot armor or GRRM's favorite Tyrion. I believe that it should have shown up on Tyrion by now although Haldon did tell Tyrion that greyscale could still show up.

"How much longer must I continue to torture myself? When will we be certain that I'm clean?""Truly? Never. You swallowed half the river. You may be going grey even now, turning to stone from the inside out, starting with your heart and lungs. If so, pricking your toes and bathing in vinegar will not save you."

[total1402]

I believe that it should have shown up on Tyrion by now.

Don't even joke about that. :frown5:

[Trinket2]

It seems like the adult version of the disease is far more contagious than the kid version. We haven't heard anything about people caring for children who are sick in the Greyscales getting the disease, but we know that the form transmitted from the Stone men is very contagious as one touch is enough to spread it. So I don't think it is impossible that Connington may start an epidemic.

We haven't really seen anything hinting that people around children that have had Greyscales go sick, so I think it is unlikely that Shireen or Jojen are carriers or could be contagious.

I don't think Tyrion is immune, I think it will show up later, maybe once he's taken Casterly Rock. I sort of like the idea of the person who wants to be lord of the Rock turning into stone.

I'm curious about how the adult version of the Grey Scales relates to the Grey plague/death, though. Could the adult Grey Scales turn into the Grey plague/death during certain conditions?

[Lady Hodor]

I think the way in which Val viewed Shireen's greyscale is very important, if harsh. I don't know why, but I reckon she's right. Val is wise, you see.

[total1402]

I think the way in which Val viewed Shireen's greyscale is very important, if harsh. I don't know why, but I reckon she's right. Val is wise, you see.

I think two disease outbreaks would be a bit much and as others have pointed out nobody has seen children with Greyscale cause harm to others. Surely the mother or Stannis or patch face would have caught it by now? JC, an invading army bringing the plague is perfectly believable and there are plenty of possible examples of this in history. The Roman army returning from sacking Seleucia in Mesopotamia, the Golden Horde possibly bringing the Black Death to europe, the Conquistadors bringing smallpox to the Americas and, again :), the Conquistadors bringing syphilis to Europe. If nobody in Westeros is immune to this strain JC has brought then it could be as apocalyptically devastating as the first three examples I just gave. Syphillis is nasty but not heaping bodies up in carts nasty.

[Apoapsis]

Do we know the connection between greyscale and the grey plague, other than that contracting one of them leads to immunity from the other? Is there any chance that a greyscale epidemic could turn into a presumably much more dangerous grey plague epidemic?

[total1402]

Do we know the connection between greyscale and the grey plague, other than that contracting one of them leads to immunity from the other? Is there any chance that a greyscale epidemic could turn into a presumably much more dangerous grey plague epidemic?

Perhaps physical contact with greyscale fungus like JC means the influenza or airborne version, which is far more lethal can't kill him but makes him a carrier of said disease. Maybe its a plot device Martins not sure about including. But if it really is that bad one of two things could happen. Either A- Aegon and the troops who join him are decimated by this disease and his cause is all but broken by it. B-A conquistador situation occurs where the Grey Plague actually sweeps all before it and Aegon is actually able to take castle after castle and his enemies armies die in droves. It would of course be a pyrhic victory since he would be taking a wasteland heaped with corpses. Plus, his army could be blamed for bringing the infection and harm his cause.

[Free Northman]

As I have said before, Winter and the Others will wreak devestation in the North.

Therefore, in order for the coming period to truly approach apocalyptic proportions, we need something to devestate the South to the same degree. In my mind, a catastrophic plague outbreak is exactly what is needed to achieve this balance.

And I believe Martin has laid the foundations for it with Connington's greyscale sickness.

Aegon's army will bring this plague to the South, resulting in millions of deaths, just like Winter and the Others will lead to millions of deaths in the North.

[Lord Paramount of Essos]

I think the way in which Val viewed Shireen's greyscale is very important, if harsh. I don't know why, but I reckon she's right. Val is wise, you see.

Val is just superstisious, she is a wildling. Old Maester Cressen wasnt affraid of the Greyscale in Sireen because she is not is ok now apparently, and Val the Wildling has a histeric reaction when she sees an ugly child who passed a disease terrible desease and now suddenly Val is wise. She is just a superstisious wildling without even a basic aducation. Can we take her word about medical sciences of Westeros? WTF? :bang:

[total1402]

As I have said before, Winter and the Others will wreak devestation in the North.

Therefore, in order for the coming period to truly approach apocalyptic proportions, we need something to devestate the South to the same degree. In my mind, a catastrophic plague outbreak is exactly what is needed to achieve this balance.

And I believe Martin has laid the foundations for it with Connington's greyscale sickness.

Aegon's army will bring this plague to the South, resulting in millions of deaths, just like Winter and the Others will lead to millions of deaths in the North.

Yeah I agree, I think it also means that Shireen won't cause a grey plague in the north since it would have less dramatic effect and their are other things to worry about in the North. It does however mean that when the others winds do sweep the south that it will be like some medieval horror where the dead rise in their millions from a thousand open graves....

Tyrell ain't going to be the most heavily populated part of Westeros something tells me.

[RoamingRonin]

I don't think grey scale will become an issue beyond Jon Connington having it. I never thought the stone dragon could refer to Aegon afflicted with grey scale -- that would be an interesting development. But I highly doubt there will be a grey scale pandemic.

If Aegon is the real deal, he won't be affected since he's a Targaryen. If I remember correctly they can't catch diseases.

Targaryen's are not immune to anything.