Twists that got you again on a re-read

[Dogpile]

When does Arya meet Elmar Frey? I don't remember that part.

Arya and Elmar are both at Harrenhall when Roose is in charge. They have several interactions. Elmar is kind of an ass most of the time. Arya is pretending to be a nobody and is serving as a cup bearer. Elmar tells Arya he's going to marry a princess. Neither of them know it supposed to be her! That plan goes to hell when Rob marries Jayne Westerling.

[Ser Mag the Mighty]

i think her vision of Rhaegar talking about how he needed another child makes the R+L=J argument stronger.

In ADWD, Jon Connington's POV chapter, they mention Elia was a weak sickly woman who took half a year to recover from her pregnancies, and after the last one, the maesters warned she couldn't have another child.

[Kasrith]

When I heard certain details about Jon's Ghost "dream" near the end of Clash of Kings

[DannySpud]

Not really a twist, more of a "well duh" moment, when I finally twigged how the raven system worked. For a stupidly long time I thought the ravens knew where all the castles were and were told where to go when letters were sent. Don't ask me why I thought this, it made sense to me at the time...

[Green Dream Girl]

Every time I re-read the books I find something I missed. This time...

Gelmarr the Grim, Aggar, Gynir Rednose

I just realized that Theon killed those men himself to make sure the truth about the boy corpses would not be told.

Then he killed Farlen to punish the people in the castle for the deaths. In the paragraph about Farlen there are a couple of sentences...

I had no choice, he wanted to scream at the corpse. The ironborn can't keep secrets, they had to die, and someone had to take the blame for it.

Somehow I missed that when I previously read the books.

It took me three reads to pick that up... This is my fourth read and I am still finding new things. I was surprised to read the RW again and finally realize that it was Roose who stabbed Robb in the heart. I'm also looking for those details on the Frey Pie this read, that one went right over my head...

[DannySpud]

I was surprised to read the RW again and finally realize that it was Roose who stabbed Robb in the heart.

Did you catch the "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" link?

[Castellan]

Did you catch the "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" link?

Yes and do you think Roose thought Jaime would appreciate this as a suitable payback for having been kept captive; or do you think he wanted to put Jaime Lannister in the shit with whichever Northerners survived; or did he just think it was funny?

[A wilding]

Yes and do you think Roose thought Jaime would appreciate this as a suitable payback for having been kept captive; or do you think he wanted to put Jaime Lannister in the shit with whichever Northerners survived; or did he just think it was funny?

Interesting question, but the final exchange between Roose and Jaime at Harrenhal informs it:

Roose: You will give my warm regards to your father? (I.e. ensure he does not blame me for your maiming?)

Jaime: So long as you give mine to Robb Stark.

Roose: That I shall.

[Fat King Robert]

Well, I found this: Sansa doesn't seem to be as much of a Stark as her sibblings. Sansa claimed she didn't see anything (when King Robert "Bob" Baratheon and his entourage stayed at Darry) when Arya murdered molested owned attacked Joffrey. Because of Joffrey's wound, Cersei wanted to kill Aryas direwolf, who had fled, so instead they killed Lady.

At this time Robert also tells Ned to "...get her a dog instead". We all know Sandor Clegane is being known as "The Hound" or "Dog". The Hound and Sansa a couple perhaps? :drool:

Coincidence? Perhaps.

[Bluesnow]

"The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers." - Jon Snow, to Arya in AGOT.

This worries me.

Only thing I got from this thread so far that I didn't see on any reread :frown5:

[kraziness]

I just finished my reread and I'm torn. On the one hand, I stayed away from the forums because I anything good includes info from most recent time periods and I didn't want to risk messing up my grasp of the timing. But that means that I reread and did not pick up a ton of the hidden stuff.

Westerlings being in cahoots with the Lannisters was a HUGE shock my 2nd time reading though.

[Cigar16]

I restarted with ASoSwords. Dumb question, but please jog my memory. Where did Osha take Rickon to?

[Where is Rickon]

"The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers." - Jon Snow, to Arya in AGOT.

This worries me.

He didn't say "...they will find your dead body...", so I am staying optimistic.

[oscarcaf]

Not really a plot twist but I like this kind of stuff GRRM does:

This is from the chapter where Catelyn captures Tyrion and is dragging him to the Vale.

“The lady did not ask your views, dwarf,” snapped Kurleket, a great fat oaf with short-cropped hair and a pig’s face. He was one of the Brackens, a man-at-arms in the service of Lord Jonos. Tyrion had made a special effort to learn all their names, so he might thank them later for their tender treatment of him. A Lannister always paid his debts. Kurleket would learn that someday, as would his friends Lharys and Mohor, and the good Ser Willis, and the sellswords Bronn and Chiggen.

Tell me Kurleket, Lharys and Mohor are not nods to the 3 stooges, Curley, Larry and Mo.

Actually, in authors@google (

), GRRM says "the three stooges are in book one if you're sharp enough to find them" (minute 47)

I guess that makes you are sharper than most. :D

[Starkbringer]

Son many things..

In ACOK - the three dogs of Cleganes sigil are the three dogs that killed a lion that was attacking Lord Tytos Lannister. This is interesting.

Patchfaces mutterings (prophecies) about crabs being serving men to mermen eating starfish soup and Lord Celtigars (Stannis's man) sigial is three red crabs.

Eddards favorite knight was Ser Author Dayne who would have killed him had it not been for Howland Reed. A new twist at the TOJ?

I am trying to go very slowly this re-read and it has been fascinating to see how much I missed the first time.

[MisunderstoodFrey]

I restarted with ASoSwords. Dumb question, but please jog my memory. Where did Osha take Rickon to?

Skagos.

[Fat King Robert]

Son many things..

In ACOK - the three dogs of Cleganes sigil are the three dogs that killed a lion that was attacking Lord Tytos Lannister. This is interesting.

Patchfaces mutterings (prophecies) about crabs being serving men to mermen eating starfish soup and Lord Celtigars (Stannis's man) sigial is three red crabs.

Eddards favorite knight was Ser Author Dayne who would have killed him had it not been for Howland Reed. A new twist at the TOJ?

I am trying to go very slowly this re-read and it has been fascinating to see how much I missed the first time.

This could indicate that the Celtigars will aid the Manderly's when they turn on Bolton's men.

[Starkbringer]

This could indicate that the Celtigars will aid the Manderly's when they turn on Bolton's men.

:agree:

[Snark_Tamer]

Totally wish I could 'like' individual posts here--you guys have caught a ton I didn't. I'm on SoS for my first reread and the things that REALLY catch me are the places various prophecies (or prophetic dreams) fit. And then the stuff that supports two pet theories of mine, ONE of which you all seem to have here:

Jon Snow is the bastard son of Lyanna Stark and Raegar Targarian... My favorite 'catch' related to that is an addition piece.

1) We KNOW that all the Stark true-born, save Arya, look like Tullys. Arya and Jon look like Starks.

2) Poor Arya horseface always feels ugly, but her father tells her in GoT how much she looks like his sister Lyanna.

ergo: Jon Snow ALSO looks like Lyanna.

Second pet theory is that Melissandre is actually seeing her visions true, but interpretting for crap (might as well be Trelawney, really)... the monarch born from the dragon is Dany, not Stanis... Dany and Stanis have several commonalities, of course:

both have two brothers, the first and truest heir killed throught no fault of their own, the second killed on their behalf

But this is the gem I noticed on read #2: Melissandre says the king(queen) must keep their brother's bastard close... Of course for Stanis that is Edrick storm. For Dany, that will be Jon Snow.

[Snark_Tamer]

He didn't say "...they will find your dead body...", so I am staying optimistic.

THANK YOU! I was worried! This, though, suggests maybe she just takes needle north to help Jon with that war...

Thought of another sort of big noticing that just happened today:

Meera tells a story to Bran about the Crannogman who goes to the Isle of Faces, then returns and comes across the tourney... he is bullied by three squires (including a Frey) and a she-wolf comes to his rescue and invites him to dine with them. The she-wolf has three brothers... a wild one (Benjen?), [i forget the descriptor] and a quiet one. [not related, but the quiet one is inchanted with a Targarian girl]

What IS related is the knight that avenges the Crannogman and disappears. Bran says it would have been a better story if the knight had made the she-wolf queen of love and beauty--but Meera said the She-wold WAS made that... which had to have been by the dragon prince who won the tourney---so this 'story' is TRUE and about Lyanna and her brothers, and its place in lore among the Crannogmen means they still feel allegiance to Lyanna--I believe the beneficiary of this will be one Jon Snow.