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Who will win the battle of Winterfell?


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I just read the Theon gift chapter http://georgerrmarti.../if-sample.html - and I believe

Stannis had the Karstarks executed for treason and Asha/Theon/Mormont/fAKE Arya - they have different fates. :drool:

The Karstarks themselves were either executed or imprisoned. Their men were not. Mormont and 'Arya Stark' were to be sent to Castle Black. We don't know what Asha has planned. And Theon's fate is to be determined.

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Posted by Harle The Handsome on 22 July 2012 - 03:38 PM in The Winds of Winter

Interesting ideas, but what if the letter was written by a maester under Ramsey's orders due to deliberate misinformation fed to him? What if the Freys came upon Stannis first, walked into a trap on the lake and the Manderly's came upon their rear driving them into the icy waters?

Many believe that Lord Manderly said those things to the Freys because he needed to provoke the Boltons to get rid of both the Freys and the Manderlys. Why? Because Davos came back with Rickon, and the Manderlys need to start the endgame. Winterfell would have quickly descended into civil war had the two factions stayed, so Bolton send both of them out to meet Stannis. Bolton assumed he was killing two birds with one stone.

However, what if, while Stannis was preparing to sacrifice theon, or immediately following Theon's sacrifice to the Old Gods, The Freys come upon them and charge the island. The Manderlys, diverted for some unknown reason to the Freys, are thought to be well behind. With the intense winds and snows, the Freys assume they cannot be tracked, but they are wrong. The initial charge by the Freys goes horribly wrong because the lead horses break their legs falling through the ice-fishing holes, forcing the Freys to dismount and fight on foot. Stannis' men fight bravely, but are hopelessly outnumbered. Just as things look most hopeless, the combatants hear the blodd-curdling howl of a direwolf. The dismounted horses stampede, causing mass chaos, allowing the Manderly forces to wipe out the Freys. As Stannis' forces look about in confusion, Davos Seaworth, a small boy and a direwolf ride to front.

From there a plan is hatched, Stannis gives the Manderlys his sword, some of his men and the Umbers are taken as captives, while he and the remainder of his men go in disguise as Frey footsoldiers and Karstark turncloaks. They return to Winterfell, tell the Boltons the story they concocted, and Ramsey dictates the letter to Jon before he rushes off to track down his two favorite toys. Two nights later, a child, a direwolf, and his guards are slipped into Winterfell. After the castle is awoken by a blood-curdling howl, the high pitched voice of a child cries out, "Your true Lord has returned! The Boltons and all who choose to follow them shall be fed to the heartrees!"

I believe my theory has been burgled...

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Stannis will repeat what Robert did at Summerhall, he will defeat 3 armies. I think the surrounding ice will play a factor, but what i expect to happen is The Freys get decimated then stannis slips into WF and hands Ramsay his sword, Then the idiot sends a letter to jon mocking him because he thinks Stannis is done while Stannis is right beneath his nose! Roose escapes to the Dreadfort only to see Manderlys Ships and forces captured it!

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Stannis will repeat what Robert did at Summerhall, he will defeat 3 armies. I think the surrounding ice will play a factor, but what i expect to happen is The Freys get decimated then stannis slips into WF and hands Ramsay his sword, Then the idiot sends a letter to jon mocking him because he thinks Stannis is done while Stannis is right beneath his nose! Roose escapes to the Dreadfort only to see Manderlys Ships and forces captured it!

How will stannis get in the castle, and people are really making little of cunning of roose bolton, cmmon guys this guy transpired against robb's back and worked with foolish freys to make RW a reality, at least give him some respect.

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How will stannis get in the castle, and people are really making little of cunning of roose bolton, cmmon guys this guy transpired against robb's back and worked with foolish freys to make RW a reality, at least give him some respect.

these are my thoughts also- Roose can be defeated through open warfare, but not by deception. He's too cunning to be outwitted by Stannis.

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If Ramsey's letter was true, why would he have said that he wants his bride back? I think everything that he put into the letter was probably something that he (Ramsey) could have lied about, based on the spear wives being killed, etc. But he makes no mention of Theon (Reek), etc..

because without the fake bride, he's claim for winterfell just went down the drain.

Personally, I believe the contents of the letter to be true.

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Harle that's very similar to what I think is going to happen. The Freys will come as Theon is about to be sacrificed and his life will be saved. Then the battle will commence and just when it seems stannis is done the manderleys will turn on them and the freys will be wiped out. But i don't think Davos is coming back until later than you say. Stannis will let the Manderley's take Theon (Reek) back to the Boltons in Winterfell, the Manderleys will lie and say the Freys are right behind them and Ramsay will let them in because he will be too caught up in getting his Reek back to suspect anything, ignoring his father's words of suspicion, and just as he gets his hands on his Reek Theon will complete his journey of remembering his name ( Theon Theon it rhymes with... eon?) by thrusting a dagger into ramsay's heart and beggining the battle for winterfell which stannis will win. THEN Davos will ride up to Winterfell after the battle is won and show everyone Rickon, the boy lord of Winterfell.

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How will stannis get in the castle, and people are really making little of cunning of roose bolton, cmmon guys this guy transpired against robb's back and worked with foolish freys to make RW a reality, at least give him some respect.

these are my thoughts also- Roose can be defeated through open warfare, but not by deception. He's too cunning to be outwitted by Stannis.

This is where I believe the crypts will come into play somehow, or Ramsey kills Roose as Roose himself predicted. GRRM has said that the level of magic in each story will increase, so all the talk of the swords keeping the lords and kings spirits at rest could spell disaster for Roose. Or as many have speculated Roose and Ramsey simply come to blows and Ramsey wins.

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I don't think Stannis gets inside the castle, but is let in later on. You can predict a progression here:

  • Stannis defeats the Freys
  • Manderlys return to WF with false reports
  • Ramsay & a host of Boltons leave WF to go after his Reek and "Arya"

At this point, Stannis could launch a surprise attack on Ramsay, or the Manderlys could admit Stannis' host during the cover of night when some fake Freys have the watch.

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The most likely reason why Stannis would fake his death is to get inside of Winterfell without having to risk conducting a conventional assault or a siege. The ability of Stannis and his allies to send false letters would make any such effort easier substantially than it otherwise would be, provided that the events which transpire on the battlefield can be sufficiently obscured. If the Boltons actually depart Winterfell for the Dreadfort after hearing of Stannis's supposed death, they are done and have committed suicide, no matter how they divide/consolidate their forces.

Roose is cunning but not invincible. The constant pressure from the infighting among his forces and the excursions repeatedly commited by Mors Umber are starting to unnerve him. Given how Ramsay signs the pink letter as the supposed trueborn lord of Winterfell, there is a fairly decent chance that Roose has died by that point, perhaps killed by Ramsay himself or by Mance.

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I hope that TWoW will start to tie up some story threads. Some of the story line must end and some characters must die.

I nominate Roose and Ramsey. I hope that they are gone by the end of the battle of the ice/Winterfell.

I would enjoy it if their House was extinguished, the Dreadfort torn down and the ground salted. I'm sure that events will not be that neat (after all we're talking about Stannis and not Bloodraven), but I hope that the Boltons will be off stage soon.

Time will tell...

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How will stannis get in the castle, and people are really making little of cunning of roose bolton, cmmon guys this guy transpired against robb's back and worked with foolish freys to make RW a reality, at least give him some respect.

Cunning? I think it was a stupid move, Roose single- handedly turned the entire North against him. Any idiot can put two and two together and figure out why the Boltons are unmolested from the RW. If anything Roose is Cautious. He has a idiot and very hated son, and he's stuck inside a very hostile environment with people who would love to slit his throat. Once word spreads that "Arya" is gone all hell will break loose. I expect Roose being the cautious man that he is to fall back to his home base and hole up there. There is just too many great factors against him.

1.Arya is gone

2.His lords hate him and will rebel once they find out Arya is gone

3.Manderly will crush the Freys from behind

4.Stannis is a badass

5.Ramsay is an idiot

Take your pick, Roose is finished, he is as good as LampFrey pie!

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Cunning? I think it was a stupid move, Roose single- handedly turned the entire North against him. Any idiot can put two and two together and figure out why the Boltons are unmolested from the RW. If anything Roose is Cautious. He has a idiot and very hated son, and he's stuck inside a very hostile environment with people who would love to slit his throat. Once word spreads that "Arya" is gone all hell will break loose. I expect Roose being the cautious man that he is to fall back to his home base and hole up there. There is just too many great factors against him.

1.Arya is gone

2.His lords hate him and will rebel once they find out Arya is gone

3.Manderly will crush the Freys from behind

4.Stannis is a badass

5.Ramsay is an idiot

Take your pick, Roose is finished, he is as good as LampFrey pie!

I don't think roose bolton will not go out so easy, and also we have theory to consider about danny's vision which almost all the people in this thread has forgotten, so according to me stannis will become somehow involved with the others and things may turn up pretty different.

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I don't think roose bolton will not go out so easy, and also we have theory to consider about danny's vision which almost all the people in this thread has forgotten, so according to me stannis will become somehow involved with the others and things may turn up pretty different.

Roose is done it's over for him, he was very shaken in Winterfell before FakeArya was taken imagine him now. And exactly what vision are you talking about? Dany has half a dozen visions.

And it's only a theory,Stannis is Iron to the core, he will crumble before he joins the enemy, especially the others he knows they are a threat to humanity, the only way they can turn him is if he's dead.

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I think Stannis sent a raven signing as Arnolf Karstark to convince the Boltons that he was dead an take them unawares. Only, Ramsay got a little too excited and set the letter to Jon, including the Mance news that were true (but then again, that may be some glamour-Mance rather than actual one. A double glamour would be interesting). Anyway the Freys and the Manderlys have already left, so they will fight Stannis... or rather, the Freys will try to fight Stannis, the White Harbor men will kill the Freys. Then... well, it depends on how long it will take for Davos to come back.

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Roose is done it's over for him, he was very shaken in Winterfell before FakeArya was taken imagine him now. And exactly what vision are you talking about? Dany has half a dozen visions.

And it's only a theory,Stannis is Iron to the core, he will crumble before he joins the enemy, especially the others he knows they are a threat to humanity, the only way they can turn him is if he's dead.

I talking about vision where she saw a shdowless man raise a sword which glowed.

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While all these theories are very good, I have the real one.

This is GRRM. If Stannis can conceivably die, we should probably be ready. Especially where the Bolton and his Bastard are concerned.

It'll be nice if the good guys DID win one important battle, instead of loads of hollow victories.

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How will stannis get in the castle, and people are really making little of cunning of roose bolton, cmmon guys this guy transpired against robb's back and worked with foolish freys to make RW a reality, at least give him some respect.

Roose managed to deceive Robb by acting in the background, plotting with the Lannisters and Freys, Robb had to handle all insubordinations and now Roose has put himself in that role. The Red Wedding gave him power momentarily but he is doomed in the long run. Managing the different houses "sworn" to him while rooting out deflectors AND fighting a war against Stannis is an entirely different task. Roose is cunning, but inspires little loyalty. Stannis, I think, has both traits.

But I might be wrong, anything can happen.

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Roose managed to deceive Robb by acting in the background, plotting with the Lannisters and Freys, Robb had to handle all insubordinations and now Roose has put himself in that role. The Red Wedding gave him power momentarily but he is doomed in the long run. Managing the different houses "sworn" to him while rooting out deflectors AND fighting a war against Stannis is an entirely different task. Roose is cunning, but inspires little loyalty. Stannis, I think, has both traits.

But I might be wrong, anything can happen.

You can't stay stannis is cunning also he does not inspire ppl to follow him, the storm lords went to his brother instead of him, i do hope he loses the battle.

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