Did Shae ever really love Tyrion?

[Kronz]

Well I don't think he did love her, but he was trying to convince himself he did, or wanted to but struggled with it. To me she really just seemed to patronize him, and it seems like her actions were dishonest, even if she wasn't outright lying to his face. It's beem a year since I read CoK so maybe I am remembering her more unfavorably than she deserves. Having just re-read SoS for a third time I think she's a shithead playing to get ahead in the game, even as a minor player.

[ezinne43]

I think Shae didn`t love Tyrion, she seems two faced , manipulative , using Tyrion to further her own ends , sleeping with his father, Tywin. She was duplicitious. I think Tyrion had feelings for her.

[Albertine]

I don't understand how anyone can call Shae 'duplicitous' or 'dishonest' for doing her job. Are all prostitutes liars?

She did what she was paid to do. She was Tyrion's employee. Like all employees, if she wanted to keep her job, she had to keep her employer happy.

From a professional standpoint, I don't think it's wise to jump from the bed of the son into the bed of the father. Not for any ethical reason, but just because it seems like a choice that's likely to cause drama one way or another. But Shae was not particularly wise, and she'd just lost her job.

[silentwanderer]

On the books? It's a definite No.

On the show, its obvious to me that she loves him just as much, if not more, than he loves her.

[Ryjil83]

I seem to be one of the few that think Shae actually did love Tyrion.

Just because they never said "I LOVE YOU" out right, that doesn't mean she never showed her affection. When Tyrion realized that Shae was in danger by staying at King's Landing, he offered her a passage across the sea as well as all the jewels and fine silks she could ever ask for. But she refused outright and contently fought to stay close to Tyrion.

At the end of the third book when Tyrion finds Shae in Tywin's bed, does that mean she only cared about the money or was she forced? In my opinion, Tywin couldn't stand Tyrion and only kept him around because he is of the same blood line. When Tyrion was accused of murdering Jeoffrey, Shae was used to testify against Tyrion. Did she do this for money and silks? Could it be that when Tywin found out that Shae was the real love of Tyrion's life, what better way to sink the knife in his back a little deeper than by "claiming" what was once his. Forced with the option of doing as she was told, or die, she chose to live and suffer what wrath she could handle.

At any time Shae could have taken Tyrion up on his offer of a better life across the sea, but she chose to stay with him until the end. That is a great act of love if I've ever seen one.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Show Shae is very different than book Shae. I imagine she will still betray Tyrion but it will be because she was threatened by the Lannisters. I don't think they will show her in Tywin's bed. It wouldn't make any sense seeing how they have changed both the Tywin and Shae characters.

[silentwanderer]

I can't picture show Shae betraying Tyrion unless he asks her to in order to protect Sansa.

They both care about the child-bride enough to do so, especially if the clues point out to either Tyrion or Sansa doing the poisoning (like they did on the book).

[Merope]

Show-Shae seems to care for Tyrion, but that could be misleading. He did tell her to "laugh at his jokes" when they first met and told her the conditions of her "employment". Those sort of translated to me as "keep him happy and pretend to love him", especially after he told her his history with Tysha.

I see little evidence for sincere affection. For instance, a while later she offers to go with him to the Free Cities. But that could just be because King's Landing turned out to be a dangerous place in many ways, and going alone meant leaving the comfort and safety her rather generous patron provided. But then, maybe the books influence my opinion of the show too much.

As for the show killing off Shae in a "similar" style as in ASoS... I'm almost positive it's going to happen. At least I seem to remember one episode where Tyrion gives Shae some necklace that just begged to eventually turn out as the one he'd strangle her with. I don't know about Shae and Tywin, but I don't see a reason why they shouldn't go there. It's a nasty surprise for anyone who thought there was real affection between Shae and Tyrion.

[silentwanderer]

The most sincere evidence of affection I saw was when Shae refused, first gold, and then diamonds to be with Tyrion, which is something Book Shae would've never done in a million years. It tells me Shae cares about Tyrion's safety on the show more than she cares about her own life.

[alienlefay]

I replied to this topic about a year ago and I've just been doing some thinking about whether Tywin really invited Shae into his bed, and whether he really would have had any whore in his bed. It stinks of Varys, doesn't it?

The Wiki of Ice and Fire page for, I think, Varys, describes Varys leading Tyrion out of the Red Keep and mentions that his protests to Tyrion going into his father's chambers are "curiously weak" or something like that. I'm starting to think he engineered the whole thing and somehow--I don't begin to have a clue how--got Shae in there.

There's a theory about that, defending that Varys wanted Tyrion to kill Tywin. He could have told Shae that Tyrion was going to meet her at that chamber. it might have happened that she got there while Tywin was in the privy (another theory claims that Tywin was poisoned with something that makes it impossible to defecate, killing the victim slowly (drowning in their own poisons, I believe that was the phrase)). If Varys knew of this (of the poisoning or simply by noticing Tywin's recent habits), he also knew Tywin was going to take quite a time in the privy, giving an opportunity to put Shae in the room and allowing Tyrion to find her there. A bit of a crackpot but it seems possible, since I seriously doubt that Tywin's into whores...

[silentwanderer]

Varys didn't want Tyrion to kill Tywin because it would expose his passages and that couldn't be good for his plans.

The fact he ultimately sacrificed the secrecy of his passages to indulge Tyrion's wishes tells me that Tyrion was more important than any of Lord Varys's plans, which is the reason why Ilyrio placed him where he did.

[Tokyo Towers]

Shae was a very cold character (her "all they did was fuck her" comment comes to mind), I would be incredibly surprised if she did have any feelings for Tyrion beyond interest in his wealth. Her sudden depth in the tv show kinda annoyed me for that reason.

Tyrion on the other hand is a vulnerable man on the inside, and despite his increasingly jaded attitude I can easily imagine him falling for another whore (and likely getting betrayed :bang: )

Agree!

[Hodoris]

Afterall Shae was a whore and Tyrion being a Lannister was very rich. So all that was just to enjoy a lavish life. Even in the books we can see how she insists on wearing jewels and she wanted to visit Joffrey's wedding so badly.

[MidnightAurora]

I don't think she loved Tyrion only for what he could provide her. It was shown more so in KL where Tyrion placed her in a manse with guards, jewels, gowns etc.. When he fears her safety he brings her to to the Red Keep as a handmaiden for Lollys and when he and she are together she is always asking about jewels and gowns and asking to be invited to things like feasts. She states she could go and no one would notice and Tyrion reminds her about his father's threat and he needs to keep her safe etc..

In AFFC, Cersei was shocked by her being in Tywin's bed and did not care what happened to her body. She remembered she asked Cersei for the jewels/gowns Tyrion gave her and a promise her a knight to marry etc.. Clearly she was in it for what Tyrion could give her and then betrayed him when she was offered a better deal. Unlike Tyrion who comes through on his promises 99 percent of the time other Lannisters especially Cersei do not and Shae probably would have been given to Qyburn anyways.

My problem is Tyrion spent so much time and energy on trying to keep her safe if he really loved her or the idea of her and him being her knight in shining armor. that would explain why Tyrion did not "see" Shae for what she clearly was and only using him. He states he learns something wherever he goes so he probably learned a lot from this debacle.

[MidnightAurora]

Agree!

2nded...

[MidnightAurora]

Varys didn't want Tyrion to kill Tywin because it would expose his passages and that couldn't be good for his plans.

The fact he ultimately sacrificed the secrecy of his passages to indulge Tyrion's wishes tells me that Tyrion was more important than any of Lord Varys's plans, which is the reason why Ilyrio placed him where he did.

So Tyrion is a pawn in Varys' plans what an interesting thought since I thought Tyrion was a player. Tyrion did state Varys was his enemy/friend wrapped up into one and should not trust him.

[Dmanrules]

I think there was a hidden reason for why Shae betray Tyrion, I really hope there is anyway.

[StormRhage]

I don't think Shae ever loved Tyrion. I think GRRM was hinting in a lot of Shae and Tyrion's conversations that she cared a lot more about jewels, silks, etc. than about him. I think she was advancing her own interests, and that was it. (By the way, they are taking a marked departure on the show in this regard--they really do seem to love and be committed to each other. How can they have him kill her at this point? That will be BIG.)

I think Tywin had a weakness for whores and that is why he was so horrid to his son about that particular issue. I think Tywin hated that of all his children, Tyrion was the most like him--intelligent, cunning, well-read, and with the same weakness. As to why he chose Shae in particular for his bed that night, I can't say. Maybe he took a devilish delight in betraying his son just that much more.

100% :agree:

[Katerine459]

I agree with what many others have posted: In the TV show, quite possibly. She was really cool in the TV show.

In the books... no. No way. She was just a money-grubbing, shallow, little...

[That Demon Monkey]

In my own demented fantasy, Dany & Tyrion meet and she falls madly in love with his wit & cunning ( and the fact that he has 1/2 a nose & two different collored eyes!) and they rule Westeros together: Beauty & the Beast. All hail Danaerys Stormborn and Tyrion Lannister, 1st of their names. :bowdown:

If this were to happen I would literally burn all the books (Or give them to a charity shop). But good we all share different opinions.

As for the Tywin vs Tyrion thing; Something I learned a while ago and that has always stuck with me is that we all hate others most for something we hate in ourselves. For example, I can be a real know-it-all. I hate when someone else is a know-it-all.

Tywin liked banging whores but HATED when his own son liked banging whores. It reflects your bad side back at you.