Dawn - Trophy captured from the Others?

[bloodymime]

I certainly like the idea of the Daynes being connected to the Wall since I had the hare brained idea pop into my head earlier today that Qhorin Halfhand was actually Arthur Dayne. I know there's all kinds of actual reasons why it can't be and I have no reasonable reasons for thinking it other than they're both equally awesome, unmatched in their dedication to their vows, it makes a bittersweet symmetry that Dayne would actually survive the ToJ and go north to the Wall to live only to end up dying defending his king after all and it makes a poignant image that when he talks of a maid on her wedding night he could be thinking of Jon's mother.

[Lana]

Dawn was forged from a meteor...

Doreah once told Dany a story of dragons falling from the moon...

So the Others...

I'mnotsayingitwasaliens.gif

Joking aside, I wonder if that's why Darkstar was introduced to the story in an otherwise minor role. IIRC Arianne commented on his swordsmanship and there's the crackpot theory that Brandon + Ashara = Darkstar. The last known whereabouts of Dawn was Ned giving it to Ashara, right? With Stark blood, would that make it more likely that he has a role in this war?

[Pod The Impaler]

This is an interesting theory, at least.

[Dragons and Direwolves]

Who currently holds Dawn? Where is it?

[Dragons and Direwolves]

Darkstar isn't a bastard, he has Dayne for his last name.

[Lana]

Well if you subscribe to the theory, they passed him off as someone from a cadet branch to cover up Ashara's dishonor? I'm not sure how I feel about it but I'm doubtful he was introduced in the story just to push Dorne into the war by maiming Myrcella

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Dawn was forged from a meteor...

Actually, I'm pretty sure that the word "meteor" is never used. It's "fallen star." Someone can shoot this down or back me up.

Joking aside, I wonder if that's why Darkstar was introduced to the story in an otherwise minor role. IIRC Arianne commented on his swordsmanship and there's the crackpot theory that Brandon + Ashara = Darkstar. The last known whereabouts of Dawn was Ned giving it to Ashara, right? With Stark blood, would that make it more likely that he has a role in this war?

I think Darkstar is too old to be Brandon and Ashara's kid. Arianne is 23 and seems to think of him as a peer/contemporary, suggesting he's in his early 20s at least.

Who currently holds Dawn? Where is it?

No one holds it. It's at Starfall, awaiting the next Sword of the Morning.

[bloodymime]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that the word "meteor" is never used. It's "fallen star." Someone can shoot this down or back me up.

Nope, not once.

"who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star. They called him the Sword of the Morning"

Off topic but interesting fallen star is also only used three more times after that by Cat, Jon and Arya respectively thinking of fires as looking like fallen stars.

[Sevumar]

Well if you subscribe to the theory, they passed him off as someone from a cadet branch to cover up Ashara's dishonor? I'm not sure how I feel about it but I'm doubtful he was introduced in the story just to push Dorne into the war by maiming Myrcella

I'd like to think that Darkstar has some significance to the story. He's supposed to have quite the reputation, skilled at arms, "the most dangerous man in Dorne," attractive and cruel-looking at the same time. He hasn't done anything to merit it yet. The other thing that really comes across is his resentment/bitterness toward Arthur Dayne and his fame. He tries to reduce Arthur Dayne's legendary status to just Dawn, but others counter with words about his noble and generous nature.

Part of me thinks that Darkstar will become desperate enough to steal Dawn without being pronounced worthy. Imagine the weapon of noble knights and champions of Westeros in the hands of a jealous, conniving black sheep. It would be a way for the weapon to travel to its eventual wielder, perhaps.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Part of me thinks that Darkstar will become desperate enough to steal Dawn without being pronounced worthy.

Are we going to see Dawn's defense mechanism?

*pause*

*sips tea*

... I think so! :bowdown:

Seriously though I'd like to see Dorkstar get sizzled, impaled, scorched, stabbed or otherwise bodily harmed.

[Lana]

Point taken that Fallen Star could be a metaphor, just being silly

Right, any supposed child of Brandon and Ashara would be 18/19 but I feel the age approximation of Darkstar comes down to personal feeling. I also think a 23-year-old Arianne could still consider an 18/19 year old a contemporary, given that boys become men grown at 16 in this world.

But mostly, I guess I'm just struggling to understand the point of that Darkstar character

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

But mostly, I guess I'm just struggling to understand the point of that Darkstar character

Yeah, you're not alone there.

[Lana]

Part of me thinks that Darkstar will become desperate enough to steal Dawn without being pronounced worthy. Imagine the weapon of noble knights and champions of Westeros in the hands of a jealous, conniving black sheep. It would be a way for the weapon to travel to its eventual wielder, perhaps.

Could be. Seems like a totally unnecessary plot point but I guess ASOIAF isn't too good about being concise. I prefer to think we're not done with Ashara yet, given the mysterious circumstances of her death

[bloodymime]

It isn't described but I wonder what happened to the sword of the Other that Sam had melted. It's also strange how the Other itself sounds similar to Dawn.

"bones like milkglass, pale and shiny"

Maybe it was forged from a body, only not a fallen star but an Other. Or their swords are somehow organic in origin.

[Sevumar]

"bones like milkglass, pale and shiny"

Maybe it was forged from a body, only not a fallen star but an Other. Or their swords are somehow organic in origin.

Good catch. The Others and their weapons seem to have a certain fragile, almost crystalline quality to them. I wish we know more about what happened to the weapon of the one that Sam killed.

[bloodymime]

Good catch. The Others and their weapons seem to have a certain fragile, almost crystalline quality to them. I wish we know more about what happened to the weapon of the one that Sam killed.

That would certainly be interesting. I missed it the first time but the Other actually loses hold of it.

"The weight of him tore the strange pale sword from the Other’s grip."

So Small Paul falls with the blade sticking out of his chest. I think it's fair to say he falls on his back because Grenn checks his pulse and closes his eyes but there isn't another mention of the sword.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I also want to point out, before bedtime, that if Dawn really has been locked up for more than a decade and a half, no one has seen it in person since then — everyone is calling up its imagery from memory. And only people who interacted with Dayne directly — people who saw it unsheathed — would know what it looked like. Meaning, until we actually see it firsthand, all of what we know about it is based on memory and is therefore fallible. Meaning, it's possible that when we do see it — and I do think it's when — it looks ... slightly ... diffferent ... than what we've been led to believe.

[Sevumar]

"The weight of him tore the strange pale sword from the Other’s grip."

So Small Paul falls with the blade sticking out of his chest. I think it's fair to say he falls on his back because Grenn checks his pulse and closes his eyes but there isn't another mention of the sword.

So it isn't clear what happens to the sword. Nobody observes or comments on it disintegrating with the Other's death, like its body did. Sam and Grenn don't stick around to find out the details, but it seems plausible that someone could claim a fallen Other's weapon.

[UselessOpinion]

When Waymar Royce fought the other, the others' blade caused it to freeze and become brittle until it shattered in his hand. When Jaime describes Daynes' battle with the Smiling Knight he just describes his sword as being notched, but doesn't mention anything about it shattering.

[Sevumar]

When Waymar Royce fought the other, the others' blade caused it to freeze and become brittle until it shattered in his hand.

That is a meaningful difference between the two blades we've been comparing in this thread. They have three big points of similarity: razor sharpness, luminescence, and blades made from a pale material. The only thing I can think of that might account for the difference you've observed is that the blades of the Others have some properties that only come out in their own hands. A human might be able to modify an Other's weapon for his own use, but he wouldn't get the full benefit from it that an Other, as an elemental force of cold, might.