Why do people assume that Northmen love the Starks?

[Anvilbreaker]

Lady Dustin has never struck me as hating the starks, and even if she isn't playing then for a fool, she only claims she wants Karma on ned for burying her husband at the tower of joy, and not bringing his bones back.

[Sevumar]

^ I don't think Bolton really has any Umbers on his side. Whoresbane is only there because the Freys have the Greatjon, as Miss Barbrey pointed out. Once word comes that he's been freed, Bolton becomes short half a house.

I don't think he has them either, it was just a best case scenario sort of accounting from Bolton's PoV.

[Kittykatknits]

^ I don't think Bolton really has any Umbers on his side. Whoresbane is only there because the Freys have the Greatjon, as Miss Barbrey pointed out. Once word comes that he's been freed, Bolton becomes short half a house.

The WoW gift chapter proved this

as Theon says that Whoresbane has nothing but old men and green boys.

[LordBloodraven]

Roose Bolton said that the North loves the Starks. That's enough for me!!!

[Sevumar]

That Whoresbane has nothing but old men and green boys with him.

[/spolier]

There's another piece of evidence in the way he signs his name. Remember, Hother spent some time at the Citadel, so he can likely read and write, in addition to potentially being quite educated. Yet: "Lady Dustin, Lady Cerwyn, and four Ryswells had appended their own signatures beneath [Ramsay's]. Beside them was drawn a crude giant, the mark of some Umber."

Plausible deniability.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I find it telling that people have to resort to conspiracy theories about Lady Dustin. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best, guys: she is siding with Roose despite her hatred for his bastard because of a grudge against House Stark. These "theories" about hidden motives sound like wishful thinking

[Ramsay Gimp]

Excuses, excuses...

Fact is so far the Starks have been betrayed by their own bannermen during the course of the books a lot more often than any other great house. Except the Targs, I guess, if we count Robert's rebellion.

Hey, no use of facts around here!

[Sevumar]

I find it telling that people have to resort to conspiracy theories about Lady Dustin. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best, guys: she is siding with Roose despite her hatred for his bastard because of a grudge against House Stark. These "theories" about hidden motives sound like wishful thinking

And when reading Martin, sometimes it's not. There are plenty of hidden plans and secret betrayals in the series.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I find it telling that people have to resort to conspiracy theories about Lady Dustin. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best, guys: she is siding with Roose despite her hatred for his bastard because of a grudge against House Stark. These "theories" about hidden motives sound like wishful thinking

Or it's a case of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer." You think she's forgotten or forgiven Ramsay for murdering her nephew, of whom she was very fond? You think that crime actually pales in comparison to not getting to marry Brandon Stark?

[The Irish Wolf]

I find it telling that people have to resort to conspiracy theories about Lady Dustin. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best, guys: she is siding with Roose despite her hatred for his bastard because of a grudge against House Stark. These "theories" about hidden motives sound like wishful thinking

The theory about Syrio still being alive is wishful thinking. A theory suggesting yet another Northerner is just biding her time before she turns on the Bolton's and Frey's isn't that far out there. Quite logical actually when you really think about what all could be in the crypts below Winterfell... like a way in/out?

[Ramsay Gimp]

Of course it's a possibility. But I'm saying until we get an actual indication of her siding against Bolton, she can't be used as an example of Northern loyalty to the Starks. All of her actions and dialogue so far indicates the opposite.

[Lady of Long Lake]

The theory about Syrio still being alive is wishful thinking. A theory suggesting yet another Northerner is just biding her time before she turns on the Bolton's and Frey's isn't that far out there. Quite logical actually when you really think about what all could be in the crypts below Winterfell... like a way in/out?

Or looking for the missing swords if she wanted to verify Wyman's story about Bran and Rickon being alive.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Of course it's a possibility. But I'm saying until we get an actual indication of her siding against Bolton, she can't be used as an example of Northern loyalty to the Starks. All of her actions and dialogue so far indicates the opposite.

In a series where very few people say what they actually mean, everyone has secrets and we're not privy to what goes on in most people's minds, I don't think your case of Lady Dustin's hatred of the Starks is as ironclad as you'd like to believe, and I think that will eventually come out.

[Ramsay Gimp]

^So you're unwilling to look at facts, and would rather imagine things that aren't in the text, got it. In that case, I'm gonna go ahead and say that Manderly was lying to Davos and just wants him to get eaten by Skaagosi cannibals, and is going out to slaughter Stannis

:bang:

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

^So you're unwilling to look at facts, and would rather imagine things that aren't in the text, got it. In that case, I'm gonna go ahead and say that Manderly was lying to Davos and just wants him to get eaten by Skaagosi cannibals, and is going out to slaughter Stannis

:bang:

Except that you can easily look at the text — though it requires, like most subtle things in the series, reading between the lines and not expecting to be spoonfed — and see that there's more to Barbrey than just a blind hatred of the Starks. Many of these examples have been listed in this very thread, perhaps you've seen them? If you only base ideas on things that are explicitly spat out, you're missing out on at least half the information and probably much more than that.

[The Irish Wolf]

^So you're unwilling to look at facts, and would rather imagine things that aren't in the text, got it. In that case, I'm gonna go ahead and say that Manderly was lying to Davos and just wants him to get eaten by Skaagosi cannibals, and is going out to slaughter Stannis

:bang:

Tons of things aren't spelled out in the book but I would bet anything a good number of theories will play out to be true. R+L=J for one.

Lady Dustin's saying all these things to Theon just screams to me how what she is saying is at the very least being extremely exaggerated. I wouldn't go so far as to say she doesn't dislike Ned for her husband's death but I doubt she'd side with the Bolton's after what Ramsay did, or the Frey's after the Red Wedding obviously.

[Artos Stark]

Yawwwn. There is one of these guys on every message board that I've ever been part of.

[Ramsay Gimp]

So her stated hatred of the Starks is evidence that she actually sides with the Starks? Convincing :dunce:

What about her line about giving Robb as few men as she dared? You really want me to believe she's saying that to Theon as a ruse so that he will run and tell it to the Boltons? If that were the case, she could just tell it to Roose personally (probably already has). Remember how she clearly tells him not to repeat anything? At this point, what would that accomplish - Roose already believes she is in his camp.

I get it, not all is as it seems in this series. But that doesn't mean black is white

[Ramsay Gimp]

Yawwwn. There is one of these guys on every message board that I've ever been part of.

Stark fanboys you mean? I agree, there are far too many :agree:

[Artos Stark]

Stark fanboys you mean? I agree, there are far too many :agree:

YAAWWWWWNNNNN. Heard it all before and wasn't referring to message boards about these books, also on sports message boards. And for some reason they all use the word "fanboy" as if that is the worlds biggest insult. Old news :cool4: