MagnusPrime Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Starks are looked at as a strong source of stability and are the heart of the north. What you speak of is infrastructure and trade which would be impossible for the north to have without key technologies. The north would need to know how to harness the power of steam for engines and boilers and then the reader would call shenanigans if the north was so advanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 It's hard to even take the Kingsroad that seriously. Maybe the Targs connected a few roads decided it would originate from KL and gave it all a name but they didn't exactly come to Westeros and teach people how to make fire and what the wheel was for. They would have already had roads taking them where they needed to go. The Targs with all their high technology didn't do jack for the most part but sit around screwing their siblings, having delusions of being fire made flesh and going to war. Not much different than anyone else in Westeros once you take away the siblings and being fire made flesh.They made a few cool castles. Most importantly, they abolished the armies of the faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Glass gardens?!?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnusPrime Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Those castles don't mean a thing and abolishing the faith militant only helps them and the southern lords who follow the seven out. They should have brrought over how to create those awesome valyrian roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodymime Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 They made a few cool castles. Most importantly, they abolished the armies of the faithThey built KL. Dragonstone was built before the Doom and the technology to build it would seem to be obviously inaccesible to the Targs since they neither used it in the building of KL or anywhere else.And it's not something connected to dragons because they had dragons long enough in Westeros, they were just ignorant of the advancements of their own culture for whatever reason there might be, if they were Valyrian hillbillies or something else.Think of it as Billy Joe Bob and his sister wife Billy Ray Sue being transported to a medieval kindgom with his trusty rifle Billy Bob Boom and a truckload of ammo. They might be able to carve out a kindgom and while away the hours happily screwing to make more little Billies but eventually that ammo was going to run out and while they may seem an amazing and magical people to somebody who has never seen a gun or truck before eventually that gas is going to run out and they have no idea how to make bullets or even new guns because in reality they're a bunch of dumb inbred fucks with no idea of how to do anything but shoot shit up. They're just different. And sometimes different can be confused with actual ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 They built KL. Dragonstone was built before the Doom and the technology to build it would seem to be obviously inaccesible to the Targs since they neither used it in the building of KL or anywhere else.And it's not something connected to dragons because they had dragons long enough in Westeros, they were just ignorant of the advancements of their own culture for whatever reason there might be, if they were Valyrian hillbillies or something else.Think of it as Billy Joe Bob and his sister wife Billy Ray Sue being transported to a medieval kindgom with his trusty rifle Billy Bob Boom and a truckload of ammo. They might be able to carve out a kindgom and while away the hours happily screwing to make more little Billies but eventually that ammo was going to run out and while they may seem an amazing and magical people to somebody who has never seen a gun or truck before eventually that gas is going to run out and they have no idea how to make bullets or even new guns because in reality they're a bunch of dumb inbred fucks with no idea of how to do anything but shoot shit up. They're just different. And sometimes different can be confused with actual ability.One of my fondest-held theories that the Targs were the hick cousins of Old Valyria, the riffraff that everyone was happy to see leave/skip town. To see that idea transplanted onto an analogy makes my heart glad. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 They built KL. Dragonstone was built before the Doom and the technology to build it would seem to be obviously inaccesible to the Targs since they neither used it in the building of KL or anywhere else.And it's not something connected to dragons because they had dragons long enough in Westeros, they were just ignorant of the advancements of their own culture for whatever reason there might be, if they were Valyrian hillbillies or something else.Think of it as Billy Joe Bob and his sister wife Billy Ray Sue being transported to a medieval kindgom with his trusty rifle Billy Bob Boom and a truckload of ammo. They might be able to carve out a kindgom and while away the hours happily screwing to make more little Billies but eventually that ammo was going to run out and while they may seem an amazing and magical people to somebody who has never seen a gun or truck before eventually that gas is going to run out and they have no idea how to make bullets or even new guns because in reality they're a bunch of dumb inbred fucks with no idea of how to do anything but shoot shit up. They're just different. And sometimes different can be confused with actual ability.That's just so ... fitting :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Think of it as Billy Joe Bob and his sister wife Billy Ray Sue being transported to a medieval kindgom with his trusty rifle Billy Bob Boom and a truckload of ammo. They might be able to carve out a kindgom and while away the hours happily screwing to make more little Billies but eventually that ammo was going to run out and while they may seem an amazing and magical people to somebody who has never seen a gun or truck before eventually that gas is going to run out and they have no idea how to make bullets or even new guns because in reality they're a bunch of dumb inbred fucks with no idea of how to do anything but shoot shit up. They're just different. And sometimes different can be confused with actual ability.Not that I don't appreciate the colorful analogy, but Billy Bob Aegon and his inbred kids certainly knew how to make new dragons, they did successfully for over a century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 One of my fondest-held theories that the Targs were the hick cousins of Old Valyria, the riffraff that everyone was happy to see leave skip town. To see that idea transplanted onto an analogy makes my heart glad. :)Valyerian Australia (no offense)? Or Valyerian short bussers (no offense)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 They built KL. Dragonstone was built before the Doom and the technology to build it would seem to be obviously inaccesible to the Targs since they neither used it in the building of KL or anywhere else.And it's not something connected to dragons because they had dragons long enough in Westeros, they were just ignorant of the advancements of their own culture for whatever reason there might be, if they were Valyrian hillbillies or something else.Think of it as Billy Joe Bob and his sister wife Billy Ray Sue being transported to a medieval kindgom with his trusty rifle Billy Bob Boom and a truckload of ammo. They might be able to carve out a kindgom and while away the hours happily screwing to make more little Billies but eventually that ammo was going to run out and while they may seem an amazing and magical people to somebody who has never seen a gun or truck before eventually that gas is going to run out and they have no idea how to make bullets or even new guns because in reality they're a bunch of dumb inbred fucks with no idea of how to do anything but shoot shit up. They're just different. And sometimes different can be confused with actual ability.Fukn lulz all around. You ignored my comment about that faith though. Some credit to Jaherys pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodymime Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Not that I don't appreciate the colorful analogy, but Billy Bob Aegon and his inbred kids certainly knew how to make new dragons, they did successfully for over a century.They let their animals screw themselves into an inbred withered freak show of stunted, sick and misshapen things? Mother of God that changes everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Not that I don't appreciate the colorful analogy, but Billy Bob Aegon and his inbred kids certainly knew how to make new dragons, they did successfully for over a century.Dragons had existed in Valyria for, what, a few thousand years before the Doom. The Targ dragons in Westeros died out after 150. I'm hesitant to attribute much skill in the way of dragon-rearing to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Yes. So the people who do make it up there must be pretty tough cookies, no?Interesting point. I had an argument a fair time ago when someone who thought northerner soldiers would be tougher and hence one on one would be largely better soldiers due to their toughness from the climate and conditions. We were ridiculed for these beliefs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Mark Selmy Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I know it is pretty much taken for granted that the Stark's have ruled the North well.But seriously. Has anyone ever stopped to objectively wonder if Stark rule has been such a terrific thing for the North? I mean, apart from the Wall and Winterfell, they haven't really done a whole hell of a lot in a few thousand years. The only port (and actual city) in the entire North came solely from the efforts of exiled Southrons! The North doesn't really seem to produce much of anything - considering all the timber and resources, you would think the North would dominate ship-building, furniture-making, fur-supply, or have an amazing fishing fleet that feeds Westeros. Instead - nothing. After 1000s of years there are some janky villages, a few less-than-imposing castles, and some scattered homesteads. Do Northerners lack any and all impulses to better themselves? And since the Starks have always ruled the North, do they deserve blame for setting the languid tone?Your assement is full of capitalist prejudices. You must understand westerosi society and economy based on it's on tenants (or at least the medieval ages of real life history, whenever the books fail to provide further explanation). Under feudalism, most production is destined solely to food an shelter and since there are not many comodities nor good storing technology (to transform a great production of food into a more long-lasting resource), there's no real need for the fast development that you are proposing. It's not viewed as a necessity neither is the result of imediate, empirical needs.The main source of power is not money or any kind of economical activity, but the sole strenght of the weapons, legitimized by the inheritable titles of nobility that when you really look into it means little more than "my father/grandfather/grea-granfather kicked your ass, so you own fealty to me at least until you prove you can kick my ass back". The ones who work directly into and/or control economic activities (the burghers if you will) are not very powerfull and either are common folk who managed to acumulate a good amount of coin and now run a business, barely feeding for themselves duo to taxes or are small nobles whose families do not have enough money and power on their own and so need to actually work to improve their situations (specially if they are ambitious... Littlefinger is a good example of this second type).All these thinks considered, there's no real incentive for the Starks or most high-nobles to do anything to enhance technology and production, specially in the north, where the distances between castles are so huge and there are not even real cities (who do impose some more incentive to trading, etc). Keep in mind that the reasons I've stated are also the motive for the medieval ages to have taken so long and for technology to have evolved so little during this historical time, compared to any period imediatly before or after it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Interesting point. I had an argument a fair time ago when someone who thought northerner soldiers would be tougher and hence one on one would be largely better soldiers due to their toughness from the climate and conditions. We were ridiculed for these beliefs I was one of those who argued against you IIRC (or maybe it was another thread on the topic). I still don't see the connection between surviving tough weather and being a good soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I was one of those who argued against you IIRC (or maybe it was another thread on the topic). I still don't see the connection between surviving tough weather and being a good soldier.And i cant recall if you were one. I know you werent the really pompous condescending guy anyway so we wont fight againPerhaps not a better soldier persay but maybe more able to survive the hardships of war like lack of supplies or forced marches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Perhaps not a better soldier persay but maybe more able to survive the hardships of war like lack of supplies or forced marchesI think Stannis' little adventure in the blizzard supports this argument. The southerners are in a world of hurt and the northerners are toughing it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Towers Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Dragons had existed in Valyria for, what, a few thousand years before the Doom. The Targ dragons in Westeros died out after 150. I'm hesitant to attribute much skill in the way of dragon-rearing to them.Maybe the lack of volcanos had something to do with that too. Perhaps if they kept them in Dragonstone instead of the Dragonpit, but maybe that's the maesters influence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Maybe the lack of volcanos had something to do with that too. Perhaps if they kept them in Dragonstone instead of the Dragonpit, but maybe that's the maesters influence...That very well could be. Even then, they were stupid enough to take bad advice and brought their dragons into a hostile environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 In answer to the original post: The North is self-sufficient. They have their own religion and culture. It could be viewed as less-advanced, but the North has always been isolated from the other six Kingdoms. In all other regards, the North is keeping up with the South. They were similar clothing, use similar weapons, speak, read and write the same language, etc... The castles are the same, it's not as if the South has more advanced castles. As a matter of fact, Storm's End was built by Bran the Builder. All of Westeros is pretty content with life at the moment. There is absolutely no innovation going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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