What is the real reason for the decline of the wall and the NWs?

[Naathi Prince]

The Vale isn't that populated because its a smallish area with a lot of mountains and hills. Apparently the vale itself is pretty fertile, but the actual area covered by the vale is not very large. It might be dense, but they don't have that many people compared to the riverlands or the reach. They seem to have a lot of nobles, but they seem to be oldish houses that are not particularly wealthy. That would fit with a place that ducks most wars, so the nobles keep being raised but don't get eliminated, so each one has an ancient title to a smallish plot of land.

PS Shouldn't there be a giant mountain range between the Mander and the Rush? Continental divides usually show up on a map!

Where is the evidence that the Vale "ducks most wars?" They fought in the Greyjoy rebellion, they fought in Robert's Rebellion, they fought in the war of the ninepenny kings. These guys seem to love fighting.

[Rheagar Prime]

i don't know what caused the fall but it had to decline one day nothing is forever even the targ dynasty had to fall eventually. I think as the longest running institution in westeros it had a fine run. Still there are multiple reason though the united kingdom is one and the fact that many just disregard its purpose over time since they main enemy had be gone since its inception.

[Dimadick]

15 million for the North is still a small figure, considering its size

While I agree that the population of Westeros is probably underestimated, size alone is a poor indication for estimating a population. Take Kazakhstan for example. With 2,794,900 square kilometers it is the 9th most extensive country on the planet. Larger than any country of Europe except of Russia. But population-wise it only has about 16,7 million people. About the same as the Netherlands and smaller than Romania.

Vast areas of the North might be virtually uninhabited. For example certain mountainous areas would probably have trouble sustaining permanent population in winter.

[Dimadick]

This kind of suprised me I thought there would be alot more from the north.

Why is that? We already learned that remnants of the forces who defended King's Landing against the Lannisters were sent to the Wall. I'd expect to see more people from the Crownlands, the Reach, and Dorne. The North won in Robert's Rebellion and would have no reason to exile a large part of its population.

[Dimadick]

A good question is when did The Others disappear? Because we know the Night's King was in cahoots with them. Have The Others always been around, but have just been keeping a low profile? I would say that would be the starting point for the diminished esteem that the Night's Watch is held in and thus the lack of support, especially from the South.

The Night's King was supposedly active 8000 years before the time of Jon Snow. If there have been no Others seen in 8 millennia, I'd guess people have stopped looking for them. It would be the equivalent of 21st century troops still looking for invaders from Çatalhöyük (Neolithic settlement, lasted from 7500 to 5700 BC).

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The Night's King was supposedly active 8000 years before the time of Jon Snow. If there have been no Others seen in 8 millennia, I'd guess people have stopped looking for them. It would be the equivalent of 21st century troops still looking for invaders from Çatalhöyük (Neolithic settlement, lasted from 7500 to 5700 BC).

There have been repeated sightings of Others for quite some time thereafter. Sam found some records - records that were written after the Common tongue and Andal script has replaced the Old Tongue and First Men runes.

[nenya~]

There have been repeated sightings of Others for quite some time thereafter. Sam found some records - records that were written after the Common tongue and Andal script has replaced the Old Tongue and First Men runes.

These records could've been written down thousands of years after the fact from oral tradition or even old runes. One of those accounts Sam talks about is from the Long Night, which that happened 8,000 years ago. (Old Nan also says this was the first time the Others came).