richard_ba Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Yes but since taking the black puts you in three categories:rangers, builders or stewards. He knew that Sam couldn't be a ranger or a builder, he knew that Sam would become a steward. And since he was smart and educated the logical assumption is that he would be a maester, to me anyway.....Aemon dorn his... what dorn means?I meant forge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxpey Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Maybe, but Randyl would need to be an utter ass not to realize that Sam is no longer under his authority. Sam belongs to the watch.Perhaps, but I think in Sam case it was more about the contempt Randyl had for him. It seem to me that most maesters come from highborn families. It should be considered an honor. The only reason it should have bothered Randyl is because he was his heir.But we are not talking about whether it should have bothered Lord Randall, the fact of the matter is that it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dena Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I think that, even if Randyl goes to Oldtown he won't go near the Citadel, or if he hears about Sam being there he has to deal with it. He was the one who sent Sam to the Wall, to me that means not only that Sam is no longer his heir or that he can't inherit, it also means that Sam now has to obey to the Night's Watch only, and if the Lord Commander wants him to be the new Maester then Sam will do that. I doubt Randyl can just go into the Citadel and take away one of his students.Sam is no longer his father's heir and has no obligations towards him, so Randyl should leave him alone even if Sam is doing the last thing his father wanted him to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_ba Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 I think I found something that is going to be a ploy for fAegon's plan, once Randyl finds out his own trueborn son is at Citadel becoming a maester, defying his own order, he is going to leave King's hand position absent, leaving a gap for Aegon's further advance (a kingdom without a command is a not a kingdom at all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_ba Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 I think that, even if Randyl goes to Oldtown he won't go near the Citadel, or if he hears about Sam being there he has to deal with it. He was the one who sent Sam to the Wall, to me that means not only that Sam is no longer his heir or that he can't inherit, it also means that Sam now has to obey to the Night's Watch only, and if the Lord Commander wants him to be the new Maester then Sam will do that. I doubt Randyl can just go into the Citadel and take away one of his students.Sam is no longer his father's heir and has no obligations towards him, so Randyl should leave him alone even if Sam is doing the last thing his father wanted him to do.The case is, this may seem fair and clear for us reader and even for Sam, but for Randyl it isn't, it is still his son, he has not taken the vows as his son did, he still knows Sam for his firstborn son, even though Sam left behind all his former identity and parentage, Randyl didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor227 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 As was pointed out, what's Sam going to do if Randyl shows up at the Citadel? It would make for an awful encounter to write. Randyl Tarly isn't someone you can just tell off and get this big moment of heartwarming defiance out of. He's Randyl Tarly. He kills what gets in his way and hangs whatever tries to get out of it. Even Stannis admires him (it was light praise, but from Stannis, that's like being told you're a god).No matter what, such an encounter would be a mess. It would be terrible to write, and it would probably end in the Citadel burning, Tarly interfering with the Night's Watch, or Sam just looking like an utter coward and wimp (and we've had plenty of that to establish his character with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I meant forgeO I see thank you! A new word in my vocabulary :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_ba Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 As was pointed out, what's Sam going to do if Randyl shows up at the Citadel? It would make for an awful encounter to write. Randyl Tarly isn't someone you can just tell off and get this big moment of heartwarming defiance out of. He's Randyl Tarly. He kills what gets in his way and hangs whatever tries to get out of it. Even Stannis admires him (it was light praise, but from Stannis, that's like being told you're a god).No matter what, such an encounter would be a mess. It would be terrible to write, and it would probably end in the Citadel burning, Tarly interfering with the Night's Watch, or Sam just looking like an utter coward and wimp (and we've had plenty of that to establish his character with).Oh my gosh, it has nothing to do with Night's Watch, it is his son that is on the game, I'm pretty sure if this encounter happens GRRM is going to write it obnoxiously good, it won't be a mess. But I'm certain that Sam is going to fight some confrontation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchaza Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Randyl should be proud to be the father of the only known living person to defeat a other. Having a son called Sam and Slayer is good street cred to the Tarly name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_ba Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 I think that if a meeting comes to fruition, Randyl is going to Citadel, call Sam, Sam comes happily thinking his father came to greet him instead he slaps Sam and order him to go back to The Wall and that if Sam doesn't he is going to arrest and hang his own son, Sam stands still, until he says what he has came through since he took the black, that his father has no idea what he had been through, he has overcome his fears of fight, starvation, sea voyage, to confront a man, to kill someone and to face the embodiment of darkness and that he even overcame one of his most dreadful thoughts, the thoughts of his father, he turns his back on his formerly father who rants and even tries to do something, but Alleras, Leo and the others novices intervenesIt is known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Given he couldn't stand up to a prat like Leo Tyrell, I doubt that. Also, there's no reason for Randyll to go to the Citadel with the Aegon situation going on, even if he heard about Sam being in Oldtown.Yet he's the only person to have killed an Other, and one of the only characters to have killed a Wight (and Small Paul's wight, not exactly a little one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_ba Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 O I see thank you! A new word in my vocabulary :cool4:There is a word in ASOIF that people say that also means forge and it starts with do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheagar Prime Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 don't think we will care even if he sees sam, but if he hears oh he killed a white walker then we may see a smile come on his face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Randyll Tarley's an old man. Sam is in the prime of his life, and slayer of Others to boot. He can use his fat to absorb his father's blows, use the belly to bump him away and use his super strength to put Randyll in a bear hug and make him cry "uncle". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 By sending Sam to the Wall Randyl effectively disowned him. By joining the Watch Sam has legally dissolved his ties with the Tarlys. Neither has a claim on the other. The only other factor is Sam's being at the Citadel instead of at the Wall, but that was at the orders of the Lord Commander, so there's no cinflict there, either.While I've been waiting for Sam to get up on his hind legs and act like a man he's refused to do so up to this point. I guess we wait until 2014 to see if he does in the next book.Hmm, the underlying situation sort of reverses the old folk song where Lord Randal kills his father. GRRM sets this up a-purpose? Wouldn't put it past the sly booger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damar Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I guess we wait until 2014 to see if he does in the next book.Hah, you should be fortunate to get it in 2018 if GRRM keeps to his update schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubbletian Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Exactly, even Sam stated this to Jon, that his father wouldn't accept the fact that a Tarly has became a Maester, only to make Jon remind him he has no father, only brothersMaybe, but Randyl would need to be an utter ass not to realize that Sam is no longer under his authority. Sam belongs to the watch.This. The first seems to be a bit of a contradiction of your original post @richard_ba. Randyll strikes me as the type of man that takes his word, and his vows very seriously, and if Sam has sworn his NW vows, then he won't see him as his own son anymore. Also, once he becomes a Maester he will cease to be a Tarly in name as well. Randyll is a prick, but he's so far been one of the most intelligent men in Westeros; I don't see him bothering with Sam ever again. I don't think Sam's accomplishments or failures will come into it at all.Should you have argued that Sam and Gilly will venture back home, then I would advise we all brace ourselves for some Randyll-wrath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_ba Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 This. The first seems to be a bit of a contradiction of your original post @richard_ba. Randyll strikes me as the type of man that takes his word, and his vows very seriously, and if Sam has sworn his NW vows, then he won't see him as his own son anymore. Also, once he becomes a Maester he will cease to be a Tarly in name as well. Randyll is a prick, but he's so far been one of the most intelligent men in Westeros; I don't see him bothering with Sam ever again. I don't think Sam's accomplishments or failures will come into it at all.Should you have argued that Sam and Gilly will venture back home, then I would advise we all brace ourselves for some Randyll-wrathSorry, where did I contradict myself? Sam is the type of a man who takes his words and vows very seriously, I'll say it again Sam took the black, not Randyll, and I even forgot about Gilly, but when you make someone do something, sometimes you don't take it along. It is both non sequitur and correlation does not imply causation. Sam taking the black and forgeting about his parentage doesn't imply his father also accepted the vows and forgot about his son, but it does not also imply the opposite or what I'm trying to imply as well, but it makes all a probability that they all at some point can happen, but only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_ba Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 IMO for Sam going as harder as to confront a command from Jon, saying that his father won't accept the fact of a Tarly becoming a maester, that this is dishonor there is clearly a backgroud there, in which Samwell had proposed to his father going to Citadel to study and if I'm not wrong, Sam even said that he proposed that, that he would go to Citadel and study and don his chains only to be rebuffeted by Randyll saying that his only choice would be to take the black, I'll bring some literal quotes to fortify my arguments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxpey Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 This. The first seems to be a bit of a contradiction of your original post @richard_ba. Randyll strikes me as the type of man that takes his word, and his vows very seriously, and if Sam has sworn his NW vows, then he won't see him as his own son anymore. Also, once he becomes a Maester he will cease to be a Tarly in name as well. Randyll is a prick, but he's so far been one of the most intelligent men in Westeros; I don't see him bothering with Sam ever again. I don't think Sam's accomplishments or failures will come into it at all.Should you have argued that Sam and Gilly will venture back home, then I would advise we all brace ourselves for some Randyll-wrathI get the exact opposite impression from Lord Randall about how he would react to Sam attempting to become a Maester. To me, Lord Tarly is much too controlling and concerned about the Tarly name to let Sam's disobedience go unpunished. Remember, Lord Tarly refused to let Sam become a Maester earlier because it would bring shame on the family name. If Sam stopped becoming a Tarly once he became a Maester, then Lord Randall could have let Sam become a Maester instead of forcing him to join the NW.I also don't think he is one of the most intelligent men in Westeros. A most capable administrator and military commander I would grant you. However, his inability to think in the abstract prevents me from placing him alongside the likes of Tyrion, Varys, Littlefinger, Tywin, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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