Jump to content

Theon Sample Chapter; The Letter sent to Jon (Spoilers)


Recommended Posts

I find myself wondering if Ramsay even attempted to hunt the escapees down, in relation to when it was learned that Jeyne was one of them. Squirrel and Jeyne switched clothes. The guards were alerted by Jeyne's scream when the guard at the battlements gate was killed (by Frenya, IIRC, at any rate a spearwife). We know there was at least one spearwife casuality, probably more, with the spearwives last stand to buy the escapees some time. When the guards saw Theon jump, they saw him leap with a girl who was, from all outward appearances, a spearwife. While this undoubtedly puts Mance in the Bolton crosshairs, I don't know if "Jeyne escaped" was the logical immediate conclusion for the Bolton's to draw. "Reek and the spearwives escaped in the chaos" might be their first thought. Even if it wasn't, by the time it's physically confirmed Jeyne is gone, it's likely the pair has been captured by the Umbers. Theon tells us that 1) the Umbers got them fairly quickly 2) The Freys were getting pitted. While I don't doubt Ramsay was enraged and chomping at the bit to go tracking, it may well have been pointless to do so by then because of the time elapsed and the general chaos in the Frey/Umber battle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, sorry, but such incongruence in timelines seems too unrealistic for GRRM. Anyway, trying to speculate on this particular part seems pretty pointless to me. Although extremely interesting, it's like trying to solve 2 linear equations is 3 variables. So, I'm gonna quit speculating about the origins of this letter. Will still read though, you guys are awesome :)

Well, he did so with two whole books, didn't he?

Plus: In my copy of A Storm of Swords there is a "note on chronology" where GRRM himself states, that the chapters are not (and can't be) strictly sequential. So some events at different places are happening simultaneously. Why not reverse this if it supports the narrative?

However - I got your point (and the weakness in my theory), so thanks. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, he did so with two whole books, didn't he?

Plus: In my copy of A Storm of Swords there is a "note on chronology" where GRRM himself states, that the chapters are not (and can't be) strictly sequential. So some events at different places are happening simultaneously. Why not reverse this if it supports the narrative?

However - I got your point (and the weakness in my theory), so thanks. :)

I realize GRRM's point about the chronologies, but the incongruence that I was referring to was that first putting Jon's arc behind Stannis's and then suddenly rocketing Jon's arc 3 chapters ahead of Stannis' seems like a bad choice to make, and GRRM didn't do that ever before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stannis didn't write it. Nowhere has he displayed that kind of low cunning that would enable him to successfully impersonate somebody as distincitive as Ramsay- addressing it BASTARD for instance, how would stannis know (or case) about Ramsay's pathological response to that word? Its just not in his makeup to employ that kind of thought process, much less execute it. Plus its a flat out lie, and Stannis might kill his own brother, but thats in the name of justice (in his mind), disseminating straight up lies to provoke an ally into some complex conspiracy just screams NOT Stannis.

I think Occam's Razor indicates either Ramsay was telling the truth (at least as he saw it) or Ramsay was lying out of desperation.. but that regardless, Ramsay wrote the letter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I realize GRRM's point about the chronologies, but the incongruence that I was referring to was that first putting Jon's arc behind Stannis's and then suddenly rocketing Jon's arc 3 chapters ahead of Stannis' seems like a bad choice to make, and GRRM didn't do that ever before.

Was Jons arc so far behind? I didn't realised that while reading.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tave...yes , I think it's that you don't understand me. I'll try again. Let's say..

1.Ramsay wrote the letter - some of his boasts might be false, but all of the demands for hostages could be real and his threats to Jon and the NW would be real.

2. Mance wrote the letter - He's trying to sound like Ramsay, in case Roose sees the letter.( He's trapped in WF. At least some of the spearwives have been killed. If he hasn't been captured, he may not know how long that will last.) .. " Arya " is free and another person of interest with her .. and Ramsay is coming . Ramsay wants his bride and his "Reek" . .. Ramsay will attack the wall from the south... Ramsay will demand all the hostages ( Not Mance )... Mance would be hoping Jon could keep Val and the baby safe ..and even if Jon can't make sense of the whole letter, he will be warned about Ramsay.

( Mance would not be demanding hostages himself . Possibilities are : Ramsay might have sent a raven to Roose saying that Stannis is dead ,he's sending the sword to WF, and continuing on after "Arya ".. or Mance may even have seen Lightbringer in WF and believe Stannis dead. If so, what good would Selyse , Shireen and Mel be to him ?...and if he's trapped in WF, he would not want to be putting Val and the baby at risk by bringing them there. )

3 Stannis wrote the letter - He's trying to sound like Ramsay , to fool ( trick ) Roose, not Jon , in case the raven flies to WF instead of to Jon. " Arya " is free, and on her way to Jon. There's another person of interest ( Reek) . Ramsey is coming. Ramsay wants his bride and his Reek.. Ramsay will attack the wall from the south .. Ramsay will demand all the hostages (not Stannis).

Ramsay would demand them even if Stannis or Mance were dead , as trophies , or to be used as examples of what other people can expect if they oppose him ....Ramsey Bolton is widely known to rape , torture and murder. What would anyone think could happen to the hostages if Ramsay ( not Jon !) got his hands on them ? ... It's plain that either Mance or Stannis would definitely be concerned about the possibility.

I can't believe anyone can really think Stannis is too..what , pure ? righteous ? ..to lie to Roose , or try to mislead him... Stannis is not a cardboard character. This is a man who committed kinslaying by subterfuge and sorcery , but he cannot tell a lie to an enemy ? .. He's trying to tell Jon what he needs to know..but he can't be open about it because there's a 50 - 50 chance the raven will fly to WF and Roose... Should he not try to warn John or protect Selyse and Shireen and Mel ... just let Ramsay have a chance to get them , because he simply can't bring himself to be devious ?

This is also the man who tells Massey that even if he (Stannis) really does die, Massey is to carry on and put Shireen on the throne... But we should think he wouldn't lift a hand to try to prevent Ramsay getting her ...just because he couldn't come right out and sign the letter " Love , Stannis ? "... Now, that's a stretch.

In the Theon chapter, we see Stannis at least beginning to get a very good idea of Ramsay's attitude to the use of "bastard" or anyone calling him "Snow"..We see it in Theon's reaction to Stannis' saying , " Ramsay Snow , you mean. The Bastard" ..Theon's response .."Never call him that ! " Spittle sprayed from Theon's lips. "Ramsay Bolton , not Ramsay Snow , never Snow , never, you have to remember his name ,or he will hurt you. " ( GRRM's italics).... Asha can confirm , having seen Theon's response to her calling Ramsay " The Bastard of Bolton ". Stannis also has the Northmen who can confirm ..and besides , Stannis knows everyone who tries to insult Jon calls him bastard.

Mance would be equally aware.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see no reason for Stannis to lie to Jon, or Mance for that matter, Mance would want jon to know he upheld his part of the bargain, and Stannis would want his family protected/jon warned that ramsey is coming, but I see no reason for either to pretend to be Ramsey, its just a waste of time, and not to mention risks not getting your message across properly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't believe anyone can really think Stannis is too..what , pure ? righteous ? ..to lie to Roose , or try to mislead him... Stannis is not a cardboard character. This is a man who committed kinslaying by subterfuge and sorcery , but he cannot tell a lie to an enemy ? He's trying to tell Jon what he needs to know..but he can't be open about it because there's a 50 - 50 chance the raven will fly to WF and Roose... Should he not try to warn John or protect Selyse and Shireen and Mel , just let Ramsay have a chance to get them , because he simply can't bring himself to be devious ?

I doubt anyone here believes that Stannis would not lie to Roose - because he would. He plans to do so in Theon I. The thing that is questioned that he would lie to Jon without giving him a possibility to decode his message correctly. He planned his march south with Jon. While planning this they should have realised, that Stannis could face situations in which he has to send letters to Jon without speaking freely. It would be rather stupid not to agree on a code or an identifying feature only the two of them understand. Could be a word, could be a dot of ink somewhere, anything. Something Jon can't miss while reading the faked letter, while no one else would pay attention to it.

However Jon doesn't seem to recognise something like this and he was reading this letter more than once.

If Stannis wrote this letter and was trying to sound like Ramsay to fool Roose - well, the fooling-part worked well. The rest on the other hand ...

While Mance would not have such a code (and Roose and Ramsay would not even bother to use on), Stannis is tactician enough to do so. I wouldn't expect less.

@ aryagonnakill: If Stannis wrote to Jon, he wasn't lying to Jon but to Roose (in case his raven forgot how to fly to Castle Black). He would expect Jon to realise who wrote the letter and why.

Mance on the other hand got a reason to lie - to blackmail Jon for help. "Ramsay is coming, I'm freezing to death at Winterfell and you better come and help me, bastard" - something like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stannis took no ravens with him ..no maester. That's why Tycho had to go after Stannis in person. The one letter Jon recieved from Stannis was sent from Deepwood Motte where he had access to Ravens. He couldn't appropriate Deepwood Motte's maester or ravens to travel with him . Jon sent a letter to Stannis , carried by Tycho. Tycho will be carrying news , if not a letter back. But things are moving , changing so quickly ,by the Theon chapter , it would be better if Jon gets info sooner. He has Tybald's ravens, trained to fly between the Dreadfort and WF. ( If he sent the letter, that means like us, he has reasons to think those ravens might be able to fly to Jon , but it's a risk..he can't be absolutely certain . )

Dyntia.. I can imagine Jon and Stannis might not have a code . Easily. We haven't seen Stannis discussing his every move with Jon ,only where he thinks Jon might have something worthwhile to contribute , or as regards dispositions at the wall (but he really doesn't want to take over the NW)... and Jon is concerned with maintaining some sort of deniability of collaboration with Stannis , for the NW sake .. I don't think they would necessarily plan for secret codes between the the two of them. Jon only pointed out the inadvisability of marching on the Dreadfort and loaned him guides to get him as far as the clans . He later loaned Tycho guides to get to Stannis.

Stannis circumstances' are unexpected, due to the snow , for one thing. Not even in the North have they seen this much snow , so early in the season, for a very long time. Stannis originally hoped to catch Roose before he reached WF, and could settle in. If Stannis was defeated or killed in battle..Jon would hear about it ( just not from Stannis) . If Stannis was victorious, then Jon would hear about it , from Stannis ... and without any need for code...It's not like he was heading into a hotbed of intrigue , like court.

However, we don't actually know that they didn't have some sort of significator. Jon's had lots to occupy his mind his mind at the wall, and we haven't had a Stannis POV. We don't know Jon's thought processes in parsing the letter, or the details of what he discussed with Tormund... It's odd that Jon thinks he should have gone to Selyse first , yet he didn't .. he could have made the time. Why ?.. is a nagging question. He's gone out of his way to show personal respect to Selyse , even while sticking to his plans. Might he actually know that if Stannis got caught in a long seige , he might try faking his death , or some other trick to lure Roose out ? I'm reminded that Stannis was on the other side of a drawn out seige , and might have given a lot of thought to how one side or the other could break the standoff.

We can't know if he had such thoughts , or if he ever shared them with Jon. We can and do know that he could have knowledge of all the things in the letter, and everything he'd need to send it, parchment , ink ,maester, raven... and reason to send it .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have come to an alternative answer, which seems to fit all the evidence. And it is one not proposed thus far.

What is the key information that the author of the letter knows about?

He knows about Mance being alive

He knows about the washerwomen

He knows about the his bride being at the Wall

He knows about his Reek

He knows about the outcome of the battle

He has Stannis’s sword

Well, every single one of these aspects is curiously addressed in the Sample chapter:

The elements of Ramsay’s letter:

He knows about Mance being alive

He knows about the washerwomen

He knows about his Reek

Then the words came spilling out of Theon in a rush. He tried to tell her all of it, about Reek and the Dreadfort and Kyra and the keys, how Lord Ramsay never took anything but skin unless you begged for it. He told her how he'd saved the girl, leaping from the castle wall into the snow. "We flew. Let Abel make a song of that, we flew." Then he had to say who Abel was, and talk about the washerwomen who weren't truly washerwomen. By then Theon knew how strange and incoherent all this sounded, yet somehow the words would not stop. He was cold and sick and tired... and weak, so weak, so very weak.

She has to understand. She is my sister. He never wanted to do any harm to Bran or Rickon. Reek made him kill those boys, not him Reek but the other one. "I am no kinslayer," he insisted. He told her how he bedded down with Ramsay's bitches, warned her that Winterfell was full of ghosts. "The swords were gone. Four, I think, or five. I don't recall. The stone kings are angry." He was shaking by then, trembling like an autumn leaf. "The heart tree knew my name. The old gods. Theon, I heard them whisper. There was no wind but the leaves were moving. Theon, they said. My name is Theon." It was good to say the name. The more he said it, the less like he was to forget. "You have to know your name," he'd told his sister. "You... you told me you were Esgred, but that was a lie. Your name is Asha."

He knows about the his bride being at the Wall

"Oh, and take the Stark girl with you. Deliver her to Lord Commander Snow on your way to Eastwatch." Stannis tapped the parchment that lay before him. "A true king pays his debts."

Pay it, aye, thought Theon. Pay it with false coin. Jon Snow would see through the impostesure at once. Lord Stark's sullen bastard had known Jeyne Poole, and he had always been fond of his little half-sister Arya.

He knows about the battle and Stannis’s fate

"It may be that we shall lose this battle," the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless."

The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead — "

" — you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."

Ser Justin put one hand on his sword hilt. "On my honor as a knight, you have my word."

He has Stannis’s sword

"Then do the deed yourself, Your Grace." The chill in Asha's voice made Theon shiver in his chains. "Take him out across the lake to the islet where the weirwood grows, and strike his head off with that sorcerous sword you bear. That is how Eddard Stark would have done it. Theon slew Lord Eddard's sons. Give him to Lord Eddard's gods. The old gods of the north. Give him to the tree."

There is one person that has all of this knowledge and is devious enough to come up with a desperate scheme like this to achieve some kind of solution to her dillemma - and that person is Asha.

Furthermore, she has some very strange dealings with Bran and his weirwood network that we don't fully understand yet. The fact is that she is going to be on that island with Stannis, Theon and Stannis's magic sword when the Frey's arrive, and should something befall Stannis, she will potentially be left with his sword, some ravens and she has received a letter from Ramsay before, knowing his style of writing.

And what's really missing here, is how much Bran has communicated to her through the weirwood or ravens. For all we know Stannis is dead or gravely wounded and Bran has told her who Jon truly is and that he needs to be brought to Winterfell by any means possible.

Asha knows that her only hope is if Jon becomes the King, and pardons her and Theon once he learns that Theon did not truly kill Bran and Rickon. He may then also give her a northern keep or even help her put Theon on the Seastone Chair.

So how does this theory unfold then?

Stannis and Asha are on the island with Theon.

Hosteen Frey arrives and there is a battle. The Freys are largely killed, and Stannis is gravely wounded. Ramsay is probably dead too.

Asha is instructed by Bran to get Jon to Winterfell, and she concocts the letter based on her knowledge gained from Theon and from Bran.

The idea is to get Jon to Winterfell, where his presence and his word that Arya is a fake will get Roose's last Northmen to turn against him.

At the same time, Jon will claim his true title as true King of the realm. I'm still working out all the details, but the bottomline is that Asha is the author of the letter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have come to an alternative answer, which seems to fit all the evidence. And it is one not proposed thus far.

What is the key information that the author of the letter knows about?

He knows about Mance being alive

He knows about the washerwomen

He knows about the his bride being at the Wall

He knows about his Reek

He knows about the outcome of the battle

He has Stannis’s sword

Well, every single one of these aspects is curiously addressed in the Sample chapter:

The elements of Ramsay’s letter:

He knows about Mance being alive

He knows about the washerwomen

He knows about his Reek

Then the words came spilling out of Theon in a rush. He tried to tell her all of it, about Reek and the Dreadfort and Kyra and the keys, how Lord Ramsay never took anything but skin unless you begged for it. He told her how he'd saved the girl, leaping from the castle wall into the snow. "We flew. Let Abel make a song of that, we flew." Then he had to say who Abel was, and talk about the washerwomen who weren't truly washerwomen. By then Theon knew how strange and incoherent all this sounded, yet somehow the words would not stop. He was cold and sick and tired... and weak, so weak, so very weak.

She has to understand. She is my sister. He never wanted to do any harm to Bran or Rickon. Reek made him kill those boys, not him Reek but the other one. "I am no kinslayer," he insisted. He told her how he bedded down with Ramsay's bitches, warned her that Winterfell was full of ghosts. "The swords were gone. Four, I think, or five. I don't recall. The stone kings are angry." He was shaking by then, trembling like an autumn leaf. "The heart tree knew my name. The old gods. Theon, I heard them whisper. There was no wind but the leaves were moving. Theon, they said. My name is Theon." It was good to say the name. The more he said it, the less like he was to forget. "You have to know your name," he'd told his sister. "You... you told me you were Esgred, but that was a lie. Your name is Asha."

He knows about the his bride being at the Wall

"Oh, and take the Stark girl with you. Deliver her to Lord Commander Snow on your way to Eastwatch." Stannis tapped the parchment that lay before him. "A true king pays his debts."

Pay it, aye, thought Theon. Pay it with false coin. Jon Snow would see through the impostesure at once. Lord Stark's sullen bastard had known Jeyne Poole, and he had always been fond of his little half-sister Arya.

He knows about the battle and Stannis’s fate

"It may be that we shall lose this battle," the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless."

The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead — "

" — you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."

Ser Justin put one hand on his sword hilt. "On my honor as a knight, you have my word."

He has Stannis’s sword

"Then do the deed yourself, Your Grace." The chill in Asha's voice made Theon shiver in his chains. "Take him out across the lake to the islet where the weirwood grows, and strike his head off with that sorcerous sword you bear. That is how Eddard Stark would have done it. Theon slew Lord Eddard's sons. Give him to Lord Eddard's gods. The old gods of the north. Give him to the tree."

There is one person that has all of this knowledge and is devious enough to come up with a desperate scheme like this to achieve some kind of solution to her dillemma - and that person is Asha.

Furthermore, she has some very strange dealings with Bran and his weirwood network that we don't fully understand yet. The fact is that she is going to be on that island with Stannis, Theon and Stannis's magic sword when the Frey's arrive, and should something befall Stannis, she will potentially be left with his sword, some ravens and she has received a letter from Ramsay before, knowing his style of writing.

And what's really missing here, is how much Bran has communicated to her through the weirwood or ravens. For all we know Stannis is dead or gravely wounded and Bran has told her who Jon truly is and that he needs to be brought to Winterfell by any means possible.

Asha knows that her only hope is if Jon becomes the King, and pardons her and Theon once he learns that Theon did not truly kill Bran and Rickon. He may then also give her a northern keep or even help her put Theon on the Seastone Chair.

So how does this theory unfold then?

Stannis and Asha are on the island with Theon.

Hosteen Frey arrives and there is a battle. The Freys are largely killed, and Stannis is gravely wounded. Ramsay is probably dead too.

Asha is instructed by Bran to get Jon to Winterfell, and she concocts the letter based on her knowledge gained from Theon and from Bran.

The idea is to get Jon to Winterfell, where his presence and his word that Arya is a fake will get Roose's last Northmen to turn against him.

At the same time, Jon will claim his true title as true King of the realm. I'm still working out all the details, but the bottomline is that Asha is the author of the letter.

I like this,but the line "He had to say who Abel was" does not necessarily mean that Mance revealed his true identity to Theon,just that Abel was there under false pretences.I doubt Mance would compromise his own security like this.

But it's as good as any so far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would Asha need a fake identity to bring Jon to winterfell? Why not tell Jon all she has learned, ie his identity, Bran and Rickon being alive etc etc? That would be a compelling amount of evidence to convince Jon to leave the wall and ride to Winterfell? and in that way Jon wouldn't have to betray the Night's Watch vows.

Seems far fetched. Remember GRRM doesn't write far fetched plots. Everything that happens is grounded in reality. Jon getting betrayed is grounded in his actions. Ned Stark loosing his head is grounded in the intrigue of the court.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would Asha need a fake identity to bring Jon to winterfell? Why not tell Jon all she has learned, ie his identity, Bran and Rickon being alive etc etc? That would be a compelling amount of evidence to convince Jon to leave the wall and ride to Winterfell? and in that way Jon wouldn't have to betray the Night's Watch vows.

Seems far fetched. Remember GRRM doesn't write far fetched plots. Everything that happens is grounded in reality. Jon getting betrayed is grounded in his actions. Ned Stark loosing his head is grounded in the intrigue of the court.

Rickon and Bran are alive, Jon's identity, etc. is not evidence. Claiming that Bran told her all this in form of a Weirwood would not prove anything to Jon except that the author of the letter is suffering from some raging mental illness. Oh, and that she knows how to write. Jon would have just destroyed the letter. That is different from the letter he did receive, Ramsay's letter. There was enough truth in there that Jon wouldn't just shrug his shoulders and forget about it - but it was no guarantee that Jon would go to Winterfell, either.

Jon would only be inclined to believe this story if he were told by Bran himself - even if he were told through a weirwood. But Bran didn't do it, I don't think Bran knows about Jon's parentage. It never was a question that bothered him, so he is not likely to search the weirwood archives for information on this topic.

GRRM doesn't do farfetched? Is grounded in reality? Please tell the crowd who believes that Jon is Azor Ahai, legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, ahead of Aegon in the Targaryen succession, and just wild to claim the Iron Throne once he finds out, while riding his own dragon and warging direwolves.

I really hope that GRRM keeps the story grounded, and that not every character's fate is determined by prophesy or parentage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact remains, Asha is the only one in Stannis's camp who has the knowledge, guile and a potential motive to be the author of the letter. Add to this two cages full of ravens with unknown destinations programmed into them.

And this is not apparent from Dance itself, but only from the sample chapter which is actually intended to be part of the next book.

It is also quite obvious that Martin went to some lengths (stretching disbelief in fact) to get Tycho Nestoris to Stannis before the battle, having him cross the Wolfswood twice in the midst of this terrible blizzard to ensure that Stannis signs the agreement and sends Jeyne Pool and Massey off BEFORE the battle.

It is pretty clear that Stannis is going to be debilitated/out of action/removed from the main storyline for the foreseeable future, hence the need to get things wrapped up with the Braavosi before his disappearance.

His signing of the agreement and summonning of the sellswords seem like LEGACY actions by him, which will benefit Jon in future perhaps, but not Stannis, who needs men NOW. Stannis's agreement with the Iron Bank will most likely be transferred to Jon once Stannis is gone. All of this indicates that Stannis's disappearance/death is imminent.

Therefore, I foresee a situation where Asha is left amidst the Northmen AFTER Stannis is gone. What would she do in such a situation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rickon and Bran are alive, Jon's identity, etc. is not evidence. Claiming that Bran told her all this in form of a Weirwood would not prove anything to Jon except that the author of the letter is suffering from some raging mental illness. Oh, and that she knows how to write. Jon would have just destroyed the letter. That is different from the letter he did receive, Ramsay's letter. There was enough truth in there that Jon wouldn't just shrug his shoulders and forget about it - but it was no guarantee that Jon would go to Winterfell, either.

...

Right, and I suppose pretending to be Ramsay, forming up a pitch perfect malice that the character embodies is definitely more easy to believe? The words were Ramsay's, calling Theon Reek pretty much gives it away. Why would Asha feel the need to say "reek", even when Jon has no way of knowing who Reek is? And of course we ignore Asha Greyjoy's obvious report of being a warrior lady and reducing her to use some ploy, completely ignores the characteristics GRRM intended for her to have.

You all forget the characters are not real. GRRM is. Jon being AA or R+L=J is not in the book as of yet so yeah that doesn't disprove my point that GRRM story is grounded very much in reality and each action has an obvious relation to a character's personality or circumstance.

Asha Greyjoy coming up with a ruse in the middle of a snow storm. Please.

Now the letter being from Ramsay with intent to deceive or he himself is being deceived or even full truth of stannis being dead seems more likely and follows GRRM's writing style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right, and I suppose pretending to be Ramsay, forming up a pitch perfect malice that the character embodies is definitely more easy to believe? The words were Ramsay's, calling Theon Reek pretty much gives it away. Why would Asha feel the need to say "reek", even when Jon has no way of knowing who Reek is? And of course we ignore Asha Greyjoy's obvious report of being a warrior lady and reducing her to use some ploy, completely ignores the characteristics GRRM intended for her to have.

You all forget the characters are not real. GRRM is. Jon being AA or R+L=J is not in the book as of yet so yeah that doesn't disprove my point that GRRM story is grounded very much in reality and each action has an obvious relation to a character's personality or circumstance.

Asha Greyjoy coming up with a ruse in the middle of a snow storm. Please.

Now the letter being from Ramsay with intent to deceive or he himself is being deceived or even full truth of stannis being dead seems more likely and follows GRRM's writing style.

You make good points.

I just fail to understand the reason for ALL of the ingredients of the letter being presented in Martin's sample chapter.

It serves no purpose, other than to provide someone in Stannis's camp - and Asha in particular - with the tools to write and send off this letter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Asha as author - now this is an interesting idea.

Firewareagle is right, though. This scheming seems unlikely for dear warriorprincess Asha. If the letter was in fact send by a Greyjoy, she's maybe the wrong one. Given four fingers are enough to write and you're able to keep your head on your shoulders in front of a weirwoodtree.

(No, there is no big theory behind this suggestion. Thinking about Asha as author of this letter and reading the counter-arguments here only made me wonder ...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How is the letter fooling Roose? He's right there. A simple scout could and would tell him the truth, he's certainly not going to rely on some loony letter doctored up somehow to fool him that somehow accidently got delivered to the place it was supposed to get delivered even though the plan was to misdeliver it. Even the USPS isn't that bad.

Moreover, I think Roose would know Stannis' head wasnt on a spike in his castle. Unless of course he believed the letter and not his eyeballs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A simple scout would take 3 days to get back to WF.

A raven could get there in one ? less than one ?

The letter is not supposed to go to Roose , it's supposed ( hoped) to be going to Jon.

If Stannis is going ahead with his ploy , e.g. - to fake his death by letting apparent Bolton allies take his sword back to WF , claiming Stannis is dead ( maybe in the depths of the lake )..those forces would take 3 days to get to WF.

IF the raven takes the letter to Roose ..it sounds like Ramsay , and the bit about Stannis' death will serve to confirm the claims of Stannis' fake Bolton allies , when they get there ( all the more reason to trust them ).

The "seven days of battle " will just sound like one of Ramsay's boasts to Roose ( while to Jon , it might give some general sense of how much time he has ).

Roose would expect Ramsay to go after Arya..he would not approve of such a letter being sent to Jon , but wouldn't be surprised if Ramsay sent it ( look at the way he had to remonstrate with Ramsay over Lady Dustin ). He knows Ramsay is reckless , and loves to intimidate. Roose would be relieved the letter came to him... but even if Ramsay did write it from the field , Roose would definitely not re-direct it.

The letter doesn't specifically mention Stannis' head, just "your friends' heads".... and it might be true of a couple of spearwives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...