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Is all the Dany hate to do with ADWD?


total1402

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Here's a semi-related question: does GRRM intend for us to like Dany? Are we meant to be cheering her on? Or does he intend for us to become increasingly frustrated/angry with her as she descends into antagonist territory? See, I don't want to hate her. She was one of my favorite characters in AGOT. But I'm tired of feeling frustrated with her and hoping she's going to come around. And I'm wondering if that's by design. Are we watching her journey from potential hero into anti-hero/villain?

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Here's a semi-related question: does GRRM intend for us to like Dany? Are we meant to be cheering her on? Or does he intend for us to become increasingly frustrated/angry with her as she descends into antagonist territory? See, I don't want to hate her. She was one of my favorite characters in AGOT. But I'm tired of feeling frustrated with her and hoping she's going to come around. And I'm wondering if that's by design. Are we watching her journey from potential hero into anti-hero/villain?

Interesting thought, it does seem like he makes her way to easy to hate. This is definetly possible.

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Here's a semi-related question: does GRRM intend for us to like Dany? Are we meant to be cheering her on? Or does he intend for us to become increasingly frustrated/angry with her as she descends into antagonist territory? See, I don't want to hate her. She was one of my favorite characters in AGOT. But I'm tired of feeling frustrated with her and hoping she's going to come around. And I'm wondering if that's by design. Are we watching her journey from potential hero into anti-hero/villain?

I think that's exactly what we're seeing.

My thoughts on the matter are complicated, but I'll try to explain it as best I can. I think that at face value, we're meant to like and sympathize with Dany and want her to succeed. I think that at face value, we're meant to look at what she's doing and see it as a noble goal. But when you start peeling back the layers and examining her story line more, you see that GRRM is actually showing that she isn't a competent ruler. I think too many readers take Dany at her word — she wants to free slaves and take back her rightful kingdom with FIRE AND BLOOD AND CAPSLOCK — without putting it under the microscope. I think there's a devious reason why, for so long, Dany was the sole POV involved in her story line. POVs are inherently biased and are not objective; obviously Dany is going to come across as "good" in her own POVs, and without another POV interacting with her, it's hard to know what she's like from other viewpoints.

I'm also slightly surprised that so many people see her "epiphany" at the end of ADWD as some sort of positive breakthrough; I think it's more of an indication that she's heading down the Targ-crazy path.

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Here's a semi-related question: does GRRM intend for us to like Dany? Are we meant to be cheering her on? Or does he intend for us to become increasingly frustrated/angry with her as she descends into antagonist territory? See, I don't want to hate her. She was one of my favorite characters in AGOT. But I'm tired of feeling frustrated with her and hoping she's going to come around. And I'm wondering if that's by design. Are we watching her journey from potential hero into anti-hero/villain?

Yeah, I have asked myself those questions too.

I wonder if GRRM thought that Dany came across as too "Mary-Sue" in the first few books, so he tried to mess her up a bit in ADWD to take some of the gloss off her. Or if it was intentional and it was always going to be that Dany started off sweet and likable and ended up as the bad guy. And if Dany was intentionally written this way, was part of that intention to trick us, the readers? Like GRRM going 'ha-ha made you like the crazy bitch'.

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1. I get turned on when she does this, at least when Emelia Clarke does.

2. Do the Starks dwell on the evils their ancestors did. Her families crimes are more recent but she had to flee her home or be killed, its not her fault she did not get a good education and Viserys according to Barristan was sheilded fronm the truth by his Mother, who also had her head in the sand to an extent.

3. She listens when she feels like it. She the Khaleesi damm it.

4. Its her birthright, nobody is going to give it to her at this point. She has plenty of people from Westeros encouraging her to go their and do it, Selmy, Quentyn Martell, Jorah, The Greyjoys are on the way, Marwyn is going there as well and he beleives the Maesters will send someone else as well.

5. She 15, lots of kids her age play the same song over and over again, she will grow out of this.

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Bah sorry messed up post but the thing is just because she is a leader doesnt mean she should ignore her advisors. Yes she tries but half the time she is very arrogantly convinced she is right no matter what. My innate problem with Dany is her lack of any diversity in thought and action. She's so infernally one note and just thinks all the same things all the time. In essence shes boring as fuck.

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Interesting thought, it does seem like he makes her way to easy to hate. This is definetly possible.

Interesting thought, it does seem like he makes her way to easy to hate. This is definetly possible.

I think Martin doesn't intend for you to hate or love any character, he said so himself in an interview. They are all complex and very REAL characters, with virtues and flaws. Dany for example, has a big heart but can become arrogant from time to time.

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I lost respect for her when she sacked Mereen and it was cemented in when she exiled Jorah. ADWD just embellished the animosity towards her.

Also as a House I really dislike the Targs as well. I like the Blackfyres slightly more and only because their name is nice and I like the color black.

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She's a 16-year-old girl with only what leadership ability she's acquired making things up as she goes. Dany is extremely idealistic and while her heart is in the right place she has that peculiar adolescent ability to screw everything up in spite of herself (cf. Robb Stark.)

Her story line is stultifying but it's not difficult to imagine a teenager behaving that way, so I'll stick with it. You want a happy ending and everything wrapped up in a pretty little bow, go back to reading Rowling.

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Her story line is stultifying but it's not difficult to imagine a teenager behaving that way, so I'll stick with it. You want a happy ending and everything wrapped up in a pretty little bow, go back to reading Rowling.

That's not what I want or expect to happen to her, actually — that seems to be in the realm of many of her fans who think she's going to ride into Westeros on a dragon and save the world with puppies and Skittles and confetti and successfully park her ass on the throne, despite having pretty severe leadership shortcomings. If anything, I think her detractors have a more pragmatic, realistic expectation for her storyline (namely, seeing the leadership tenure of an oblivious, in-over-her-head teenage girl through to its logical conclusion) that has little if anything to do with "reading Rowling."

ETA: That is to say, a "Rowling" type of conclusion for Dany would be her succeeding despite having no good reason to succeed (lack of leadership skill, lack of will, bad timing, whatever).

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Whenever I first read the series, I just had a mild dislike for her character... Mainly that she seemed to frail to accomplish what she did, had a boy-band crush on Daario, and that she had a bit of plot protection.

Now I'm neutral towards her, the same goes for Cersie, Catelyn, and Sansa. (They are harder for me to get into I guess because I'm male)

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It's tricky because she is a very complex character and I agree with the GRRM doesn't expect us to love her (as he doesn't expect us to love any of his characters entirely. They all have flaws and we have to pick which flaws we are willing to forgive.) But it seems to me that Dany doesn't know what she wants yet. Yes she knows the word. Blood. Fire. We get that. But she also wants peace and everyone to be happy. And she doesn't want to forgive those who cross her. So she has a very confused viewpoint. You don't get peace from blood and fire. She will have to make a choice of whether she wants to be a Targaryen conqueror or the mother of the people. But she can't be both and she hasn't committed to either, so she undermines herself constantly. If she can reconcile this she will be a forced to be reckoned with (whether to be welcomed or feared is yet to be seen).

In sense I think it's the undermining that makes it so hard to read. She started off by becoming strong (in GoT she goes from lost girl to the Mother of Dragons.) and then became hesitant. It's much harder to deal with than watching a straight weak to strong story. Though the struggle she encounters is probably more realistic than just a flat I was weak and am not becoming stronger story.

That being said... her titles annoy me. Every introduction it's Daenerys Stormborn of house Targaryen first of her name, unburnt, mother of dragons, Queen of the Angles and the First Men, on and on... it's like a poorly written resume every time someone wants to talk to her. Does she have the longest title in the series? It's either that or it's said the most

often.

ETA: wanted to clarify I mean a poorly written resume not anything about the writing of the story. You know the kind of resume where the person writes down every hobby/activity/interest since sixth grade? That GRRM includes it adds to his story and how we characterize her. Gives us more to go on about her character. Still reading it all the time is like nails on a chalkboard.

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That being said... her titles annoy me. Every introduction it's Daenerys Stormborn of house Targaryen first of her name, unburnt, mother of dragons, Queen of the Angles and the First Men, on and on... it's like a poorly written resume every time someone wants to talk to her. Does she have the longest title in the series? It's either that or it's said the most often.

I think Dany's mile-long list of personal stylings is Exhibit A that possession is 9/10ths of the law and if you don't actually have your "property," the list of titles is meaningless. Something else that I view as something to be mocked or at least taken with a grain of salt. I don't find her litany of titles impressive or empowering at all. Talk's cheap.

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She's a 16-year-old girl with only what leadership ability she's acquired making things up as she goes. Dany is extremely idealistic and while her heart is in the right place she has that peculiar adolescent ability to screw everything up in spite of herself (cf. Robb Stark.)

Her story line is stultifying but it's not difficult to imagine a teenager behaving that way, so I'll stick with it. You want a happy ending and everything wrapped up in a pretty little bow, go back to reading Rowling.

I like how if you don't like Dany you get called an idealistic 8 year old who only wants to read fairy tales.

And Reading Rowling? You must be quoting from the long lost eighth Harry Potter volume Harry Potter and the Straw Man.

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The hate for Dany derives from several reasons

1. Her insistence of mentioning her background and birth "Blood of the Dragon " in a very annoying way

2. Her ignorance of the realities of her house; she refuses to see the bad of her house

3. Her lack of listening to others

4. Her presumption; she wants to take over a land she knows nothing about

5. Her one-note personality : in the fifth book her thoughts and actions say the same thig again and again

This is where my hate of Dany comes from. FIIIRREEE AND BLOOOODDD

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