How do you think Robert Arryn will die?

[Eira Seren]

wow, have just read the Tysha theory. very convincing!

'Where do whores go?' is such a refrain (like J.S. wondering who his mother is), that the likelihood of us finding out is pretty strong.

especially since Tyrion just refuses to die. baelish is going to have to clear the way if he is ever going to marry Sansa.

as for Sweetrobin, that poor kid could make it, I guess, if they stay in the Vale or somewhere else safe. The Quiet Isle might work. However, once they go on the road, I doubt travel (and outlaws and war or storms) will agree with his constitution. moving him is going to pose a big problem, even if right now Littlefinger needs him.

As for the potential affair, i'll buy that. Lysa may have had enough trouble after her initial pregnancy to decide that Jon Arryn wouldn't be able to give her any children (or any healthy children). Why not try again with someone who she knew could get her pregnant? Though her motives for an affair would probably be more for love.

[Kittykatknits]

Littlerrobin is the absolute ruler of the Vale is the same way Tommen is the absolute ruler of the Kingdoms. Which is to mean - They aren't. Any problems with their "rule" can be attributed to their "stewards". Saying Littlerobin would be a bad ruler to the Vale is like saying Tommen would be a bad ruler to beet farmers.

Ahem, that's Ser Sweetrobin to you. :)

[Lyanna Stark]

I believe:

That if Tysha were to be brought into the light, it must almost certainly needs be the genuine Tysha. Remember we have Jamie still in play, he being the only one besides Cersei who knows what Tysha looks like. Since he is single-handedly(ha) clawing his way up to becoming an honorable man, it's becoming less likely he'd participate in the farce of a nonTysha.

Jaime is of end ADWD lost in the Riverlands with Brienne and has been for weeks.

Nobody in Kings Landing knows what Tysha looks like, so the only thing LF needs is to bring forth a woman who can pass convincingly as Tysha. Granted, the High Septon may be harder to fool than Roose Bolton, but there are reasons to believe the High Septon may be partial to the non-Lannister factions in Westeros, due to Cersei's shenanigans, and Tyrion's status as a King and Kinslayer.

I'm very tired of the Tysha/"where do whores go" sub-plot. However, LF producing "Tysha" would be an interesting turn of events. I, too, am torn as to whether it would be best to have Fake Tysha or Real Tysha. Another pretender is a bit much.

Littlefinger is all about pretending though. He pretends he found Arya, he pretends he has a bastard daughter, why not pretend he found Tyrion's first wife? He's good at pretending, Littlefinger.

[Eric v. Melnibonee]

Wow! The Tysha theory is so amazingly clear: where do whorse's go... GREAT! Thank's, Lyanna!! Yeah, and I am a follower of the QI theory, too. Sansa will not get lost in LF's intrigues, she will get real starkish and safe Sweetrobin.

[Elba the Intoner]

EDIT: I feel like I need to consolidate my Grand Unified Littlefinger, Sansa, Sweetrobin and Tysha theory in one big post. :lol:

Lyanna, I remember reading your LF revealing Tysha theory on the Sansa reread thread and loved it then. I love it even more now! I want to read your grand unified LF, Sansa, SR Tysha theory big time, especially as it seems to incorporate Sandor on the QI and, dare I say, SanSan?

As for the possibility that LF is SweetRobin's father, it's pretty clear to me that LF was manipulating Lysa in King's Landing. He got her to poison Jon Arryn, then send a letter in a secret childhood handwriting that only Cat would have known about, to Cat saying that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn. Since Lysa was crazy obsessed with LF, I would bet that the way he manipulated her was with sex. He said it himself, find out what people want and you know how to control them. What Lysa wanted was him, so that's what he gave her.

[Eira Seren]

i did not pick up on the secret handwriting from the letter.

if so, this really clears up quite a bit for me. i have been wondering just how thoroughly Littlefinger might have manipulated circumstances early on. quite possible, it seems.

the other person who seems to like solving things through letters and ravens is Tywin, a rather interesting possible parallel (though i won't make much of it, except as an observation).

[Elba the Intoner]

Oh wait, I should clarify that it was not secret handwriting, but a secret language that Cat and Lysa developed in childhood that only they spoke to each other. But either way, it means that Lysa was the only one who could have written that letter to Cat.

[FanTasy]

Possible but they were together in KL for years and we know that LF had Llysa poison Jon so we know that they interacted.

As said, possible and open for interpretation, because no evidence or reference at all is given.

Somehow I think Littlefinger had to have a very solid reason if there were sexual encounters before the one that was needed to make the marriage legit, the bedding.

I get the feeling he never found Lysa attractive, fysically nor as a person. She was just a means to his end.

What would - in your interpretation - be his interest in entertaining sexual relations with her while they both were in Kings landing? Wouldn't he consider it to be too dangerous, knowing that nothing there could be kept a secret for instance for Varys' spies? To me, characterwise and of course interpretating for lack of clues, entertaining an affair with Lysa would be something Littlefinger would not have sufficient motivation for to risk it.

[Black Wolf Smith]

:bang: After reading some of this thread, I think I need a fronal lobotomy instead of a bottle in front of me. :drool:

As to the OP, everything says sweet robin dies, so IMO he some how lives thru the books, and because of Sansa won't be that bad a Lord.

[Elba the Intoner]

As said, possible and open for interpretation, because no evidence or reference at all is given.

Somehow I think Littlefinger had to have a very solid reason if there were sexual encounters before the one that was needed to make the marriage legit, the bedding.

I get the feeling he never found Lysa attractive, fysically nor as a person. She was just a means to his end.

What would - in your interpretation - be his interest in entertaining sexual relations with her while they both were in Kings landing? Wouldn't he consider it to be too dangerous, knowing that nothing there could be kept a secret for instance for Varys' spies? To me, characterwise and of course interpretating for lack of clues, entertaining an affair with Lysa would be something Littlefinger would not have sufficient motivation for to risk it.

Well, as I pointed out above, LF needed Lysa not only to poison Jon but to send a letter to Cat accusing the Lannisters of the poisoning. Since Lysa was obsessed with him, I would not put it past him to sleep with her so that she would do what he wanted. By sleeping with Lysa, LF is giving her what she wants and that's how he would have manipulated her.

[pitakon]

The formative years of Sansa is with Littlefinger. Sansa will do to Sweetrobin what Cersei did to Robert.

[Eric v. Melnibonee]

Formative YEARS?! I sincerely hope that her time with LF will not be for such a long period... Sure, she will get some lessons in the game, but I doubt that makes her a Cersei. She will prove herself in protecting Sweetrobin and play her cards out. Okay, I definitely want her to take SR to QI and bring some fresh wind (and a certain GD) in her story again...

[brashcandy]

The formative years of Sansa is with Littlefinger. Sansa will do to Sweetrobin what Cersei did to Robert.

Sansa's formative years were spent with her family in Winterfell. That's where her compassion, empathy, sense of right and wrong were all developed. As Eric noted above, she may be becoming less naive due to her experiences in KL and the Vale, and learning that life is not a song, but it take a lot for LF to corrupt Sansa's essential character. She's trying to survive and not be a pawn again, but I highly doubt she'll be willing to go along with SR's murder.

[Eira Seren]

As said, possible and open for interpretation, because no evidence or reference at all is given.

Somehow I think Littlefinger had to have a very solid reason if there were sexual encounters before the one that was needed to make the marriage legit, the bedding.

I get the feeling he never found Lysa attractive, fysically nor as a person. She was just a means to his end.

What would - in your interpretation - be his interest in entertaining sexual relations with her while they both were in Kings landing? Wouldn't he consider it to be too dangerous, knowing that nothing there could be kept a secret for instance for Varys' spies? To me, characterwise and of course interpretating for lack of clues, entertaining an affair with Lysa would be something Littlefinger would not have sufficient motivation for to risk it.

Well, as I pointed out above, LF needed Lysa not only to poison Jon but to send a letter to Cat accusing the Lannisters of the poisoning. Since Lysa was obsessed with him, I would not put it past him to sleep with her so that she would do what he wanted. By sleeping with Lysa, LF is giving her what she wants and that's how he would have manipulated her.

oh! i just remembered: didn't LF say something during a small council meeting once to the effect of 'when you have to sleep with an ugly woman, the best thing to do is close your eyes and get it over with'?

i really think he did.

nothing like lying there awake thinking about stuff. now maybe i can finally go to sleep.

[FanTasy]

oh! i just remembered: didn't LF say something during a small council meeting once to the effect of 'when you have to sleep with an ugly woman, the best thing to do is close your eyes and get it over with'?

Good catch! He explored the possibilities of becoming Lord Stokeworth first but when he was able to ask for Harrenhal as a reward and got it, he was in a position to go for Lysa (ETA and for the Vale).

[Pellaeon]

GRRM stated he like books who are unpredictable, so I believe he will survive

[Lyanna Stark]

As said, possible and open for interpretation, because no evidence or reference at all is given.

Somehow I think Littlefinger had to have a very solid reason if there were sexual encounters before the one that was needed to make the marriage legit, the bedding.

I get the feeling he never found Lysa attractive, fysically nor as a person. She was just a means to his end.

What would - in your interpretation - be his interest in entertaining sexual relations with her while they both were in Kings landing? Wouldn't he consider it to be too dangerous, knowing that nothing there could be kept a secret for instance for Varys' spies? To me, characterwise and of course interpretating for lack of clues, entertaining an affair with Lysa would be something Littlefinger would not have sufficient motivation for to risk it.

Yes, LF states in KL that if you need to sleep with an ugly woman you had better get on with it, and he clearly foreshadows how he himself will use Lysa, and he's also telling the readers that he is totally fine with using said "ugly woman" for his own benefit without a second thought. Which is also what he does to Lysa.

I mean, it's obvious Lysa was at least subconsciously unsure of LF's affections. He may do his best to convince her, but judging by how he has acted in the past and that he strung Lysa along, I am sure that Lysa on some level suspected he wasn't truthful. Which she was right too, as well.

Unfortunately, I think Lysa is portrayed really negatively, when she is really a tragic character who had a really shitty life, married off against her will, the victim of a forced abortion, lots of miscarriages and then lastly, betrayed and murdered by her own husband, the only man she ever loved.

[FanTasy]

Unfortunately, I think Lysa is portrayed really negatively, when she is really a tragic character who had a really shitty life, married off against her will, the victim of a forced abortion, lots of miscarriages and then lastly, betrayed and murdered by her own husband, the only man she ever loved.

Somehow there's something missing here ... ah, I remember, it is murdering her husband and the father of her son, lying to and endangering her sister and her sister's husband and their children, trying to murder her niece.

ETA And, as a slightly lesser flaw, not visiting her father on his death bed and trying to make up with him.

Sure she had a shitty life, but she is not just a victim in this story ...

[Eric v. Melnibonee]

"Love is a sweet poison..." isn't it...?

[Elba the Intoner]

Well, According to Cersei, love is poison, a sweet poison yes but it will kill you all the same.