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Sexual Abuse in ASOIAF (Contains Spoilers)


ServantOnIce

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About "going away inside", Jaime also did so when seeing Rickard Stark burn, so it's not always about sexual abuse... That being said, I'm on the fence on Joffrey and Tommen. It's more probable it has something to do with killing small animals, tough, we know how Tommen loves them, and seeing one being skinned could be pretty traumatic.

And damn, it makes me glad people can get Doran's character so well. There's still hope in the world, I guess.

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And damn, it makes me glad people can get Doran's character so well. There's still hope in the world, I guess.

Absolutely, it legitimately upset me for a moment when it seemed that someones first thought about the Doran scenes in the water gardens was of pedophilia.

That being said, I work as a counselor in a prison. I have met a man who would get aroused by ads where a childs diaper was being tugged down. Very disturbing.

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Interestingly, Jaime gives Brienne the same advice when they're captured by the Bloody Mummers.

I completely forgot about this.

This has me wondering:

In American society (and I imagine many others) the sexual abuse of a child is viewed (rightly so) as one of the most terrible, traumatic things person can go through. I wonder if GrrM is intentionally using the "going away inside" idea to show that in a premodern world, theres all sorts of terrible things people had to live with (no therapists), and to get our desensatized minds (we're used to seeing limbs being hacked off on tv and such) to register such trauma by relating it to something that makes most sane people "uncomfortable" Does that make sense?

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Viserys was going to rape her on her wedding night.

Yeah :( Illyrio said in Dance with Dragons Viserys was unhappy about having to give up Dany and that he wasn't the one getting married to her, so he wanted to take her maidenhead instead. I found that slightly disconcerting not because of the incest factor, but because Viserys was known to be cruel and abusive towards Dany.

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Today if a man said what he said about watching kids play nude in the pools, that dude would be quesioned by Law Enforcement and off the baby sitting list.

Up that proves it then... In perfect modern-day western society. Give me a break.

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I (want to) believe the idea that Euron abused Aeron. I think it makes sense and adds a nice dark twist to both of their characters. Maybe GRRM's keeping it vague so he can unleash the truth dramatically - probably not, but it could be an important character moment for Aeron to reconcile with the facts of what has happened to him in the past or face Euron for what he did.

I think familial abuse, including sexual abuse, adds to a lot of the themes and ideas in ASoIaF. Nobody is safe from harm, not even from those closest to them - while families can equal security and power, within them all sorts of messed up business can go on. The Targaryans set a precedent for incest as a political and cultural (not sure if that's quiet the right word) form of preservation, but incest can also be romantic love (Jaime and Cersei) or an outgrowth of sadism, cruelty, or general grossness (Craster).

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  • 3 weeks later...

The only indisputable cases of sexual abuse between members of the same family are Craster and his daughters and Viserys with Dany (although he couldn't have intercourse with her in the end). It's very likely that Euron molested Aeron. And about Joffrey and Tommen, I think that in his dialogue with Jaime in AFFC he meant that he "went away inside" whenever he saw Joffrey do something terrible to others (like beating Sansa), but it's possible Joffrey molested him.

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Maybe not sexually but he definetly beat Tommen, Tommen said as much to jaime but cercei told him to shut up.

Most likely "just" beat him. Those who say that Tommen's reaction is too strong to be to beatings, well, I say you've forgotten your childhood. Beating might not sound as bad to adults, but it's nevertheless very intimidating to children. Trust me, I still remember being bullied by big kids at school.

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I think Cercei's and Lancel's sexual relationship is a form of sexual abuse. She is 31 or 32, I believe, when it begins, while he is only 15. He is her first cousin, younger, and he owes his position as King Robert's squire to her influence. Definitely if this was happening in our world, and people found out about it, Cercei would be arrested, but even then, people seem more reluctant to impose harsh penalties upon female perpetrators in this type of situation than male ones, I think. Even in "Westeros-world," Kevan seems very unhappy once he finds out about it.

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  • 1 year later...

In my own reading, Joff is too much the pure distillation of a "little shit" for me to see him as willfull predater. Most of his King Brat entitlements seemed like the presexual passions of a spoiled brat or a cruel bully. It seemed like he was having trouble getting his mind around any sort of torment beyond hitting and cutting. For everyones sake I think the snots libido was only really comming in to its own at the very end.

There's a disconnection in my mind between that living temper tantrum and the cold, cruel designs of a predator mind, a sociopathic mind.

That'll be my impression until I hear otherwise

My impression of Euron/Damphair is that severe abuse was heavily implied in passages and that those passages are rife with sexual/gender overtones. So, I'll give that a "yes" until proven otherwise.

Not sure what V had or had not done to Dany, but there were certainly peculiar boundary issues and a plain sense that Dany was abused to some extent by him (psychologically). Her early experiences with Drogo leave me to believe that she wasn't on familiar terms with much sexuallity.

Craster: open and shut!

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I can't believe no ones mentioned Lyn Corbray yet...

Well, I believe the OP refers to abuse within the family, which as far as we know, doesn't seem to be the case of LF's favorite paedophile.

I think Cercei's and Lancel's sexual relationship is a form of sexual abuse. She is 31 or 32, I believe, when it begins, while he is only 15. He is her first cousin, younger, and he owes his position as King Robert's squire to her influence. Definitely if this was happening in our world, and people found out about it, Cercei would be arrested, but even then, people seem more reluctant to impose harsh penalties upon female perpetrators in this type of situation than male ones, I think. Even in "Westeros-world," Kevan seems very unhappy once he finds out about it.

It's a form of sexual abuse/harrasment. Of course, far less violent and likely less traumatizing than whatever Euron might have done to Aeron. And, no, I am not condoning it in any way.
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Wow, you are seriously grasping at straws.

i think if you had read the whole thread on aeron possibly being molested, you wouldn't say that. It seems to me that posts like that without counter arguments or examples only try to anger and belittle others. And so what if it's grasping at straws, it's still an interesting topic to explore.

Anyway, I think the euron/aeron theory is a strong possibility, but the others not so much.

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TV show Joffrey gets sexual gratification from violence. Book Joffrey I'm not so sure about. He does abuse Tommen (eg killing his pet fawn and making it into a jerkin) but I don't know if it's sexual.



Aeron's recollections seem to point to sexual abuse by Euron.



Craster obviously sexually abuses his daughters and grand-daughters.



Jeyne Poole's life after AGOT has been a nightmare of sexual abuse. At the age of 11. she's forced to work in a brothel, and repeatedly whipped (as punishment and/or for the sexual gratification of customers). By the time that she's wed to Ramsay, she may have reached the point where rape, forced sex with animals etc. seem almost normal to her.



Viserys gropes Dany in her first chapter. I strongly suspect that that wasn't the first time.

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