Jon Snow (Spoilers)

[wolfmaid7]

I'm thinking, Jon will die. Mel will resurrect him similar to Thoros resurrecting Beric or Beric resurrecting Cat. Jon will plunge his Longclaw into Mel, killing her, and somehow causing Longclaw to flame up. Then he will be Azor Ahai.

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt...

It's possible:

red star = Mel

smoke = Jon's wounds

salt = Bowen Marsh's tears

Also, Lightbringer was forged three times. Longclaw underwent two changes so far. First, Mormont bear. Second, direwolf for Jon. Maybe the third will be from stabbing Melisandre, turning it into Lightbringer.

I hope Mel doesn't have anything to do with it. Her touching him in that way especially when he is so devoted to Old God's feel like a violation to me. I hope Bran and Bloodraven step in. I think seeing as Theon is about to be sacrificed in front of the Weirwoods-,may help in resurrecting Jon Theon's father was a King. Who knows where GM may go with this, there is quite a few possibilities.

[Budj]

I hope Mel doesn't have anything to do with it. Her touching him in that way especially when he is so devoted to Old God's feel like a violation to me. I hope Bran and Bloodraven step in. I think seeing as Theon is about to be sacrificed in front of the Weirwoods-,may help in resurrecting Jon Theon's father was a King. Who knows where GM may go with this, there is quite a few possibilities.

I've postulated that before. Theon's story could be wrapped up fairly nicely in that manner and Asha would be doing him a favor....because he is going to be burned if not beheaded anyways. The ravens knew his name and were also calling for 'tree' before Asha suggested it. Something is fishy :)

[wolfmaid7]

I've postulated that before. Theon's story could be wrapped up fairly nicely in that manner and Asha would be doing him a favor....because he is going to be burned if not beheaded anyways. The ravens knew his name and were also calling for 'tree' before Asha suggested it. Something is fishy :)

Your totally right Bard one way or another he is going to " swim with the fishes" :lol: sorry i could not resist. If it does happen,this is the only way Theon could redeem himself in my eyes.After the crap he pulled,he owes the Starks big time.

[mushroomshirt]

Anyways, I'm torn about what will happen to Jon. I definitely think he'll spend some time in Ghost, but I don't know if his body will completely die or not. I can see him having a coma/three eyed crow experience like Bran after his fall, and I can also see the Theon sacrifice at a weirdwood scenario playing out. It could also be something unique and original that we can't necessarily predict.

I like your analysis - a lot - but would differ, if at all in requiring Jon to be physically dead. I don't have any problem with Jon warging into Ghost and back again "Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again" really can't be interpreted in any other way, but as Varmayr's prologue would appear to preclude him skipping back into his own body if he has died, the conclusion has to be that although badly wounded he's not dead.

I also think it is not clear if Jon will be dead and resurrected or just hurt. What is clear (at least to me) is that a) he will be alive after all of this and b) Ghost will be somehow involved.

[kissdbyfire]

I still have a lot of trouble with the Jon in Ghost theory. First it was made pretty clear in the Varamyr prologue that when a warg dies his spirit transfers to a familiar and lives out his (or her) second life there, gradually fading into the host and unable to warg anywhere else, ie; if his original body is dead he can't warg back into it.

Resurrection by Mel a la Thoros says you, well no. In the first place the body is still dead, but more importantly the resurrection magic whether by ice or fire appears to involve both arresting the decay at the point when the magic is done and awakening the spirit sleeping within the body. If Jon's in Ghost, there's nobody home and the body can't be awakened - just as Varamyr's body wasn't with Thistle and the other wights at the end of the prologue.

As to Jon remaining in Ghost, as I've said before that would be a touch limiting - one bark for yes, two barks for no...

I have therefore to go with GRRM's "you think he's dead do you?" and answer probably not. He's certainly badly wounded and he may well be about to spend some time in Ghost, but his body is probably still alive, prevented from bleeding out by the cold - preserved - and he's about to get a visit from the Three Eyed Crow.

Agree! As to how limited Jon would be in Ghost, well, not even 'yes' and 'no' with one or two barks would be possible as Ghost's mute. :lol:

[The Hungry W0lf]

I have a theory that UnCatelyn will learn of her children being alive, and will gather them. In the process, it is quite possible that she will learn the truth about Jon from Howland. I have always thought that it would be very fitting for UnCat to be the only one that could bring Jon back, and only at the cost of her own life, as Beric did for her. Melisandre may see things that are true in her fires, but her skills are limited to that, her illusions, and shadow magic; with her skill at interpretation being highly suspect. I see Mel becoming a dark force in the future, and I don't want Jon to have any truck with her at all. If he does, he is likely to get abused by her.

I thought it would be good if Catlyn was the one who brought him back maybe she finds out he was offered Winterfell and turned it down realized she had been a bitch all those years

[The wolf dragon]

I was just thinking this, with the theory that Jon is resurrected involving Ghost's death. Wouldn't that be so sad! Out of all the dire wolfs Jon and Ghost's relationship is the most touching. Also I'm one to think that Jon will eventually ride Viserion but I also think it would be amazing if he not only rides him but can warg into him. Because of his dragon blood and he also has the blood of the first men. Making Jon truly special!

[conwaysuccess]

I was just thinking this, with the theory that Jon is resurrected involving Ghost's death. Wouldn't that be so sad! Out of all the dire wolfs Jon and Ghost's relationship is the most touching. Also I'm one to think that Jon will eventually ride Viserion but I also think it would be amazing if he not only rides him but can warg into him. Because of his dragon blood and he also has the blood of the first men. Making Jon truly special!

I love this idea! God I can't wait until the next book comes out!!!

[The wolf dragon]

It just amazes me how more people don't mention how Jon represent the North as in the the blood of the First men, the Children of the Forest, I.e. has the ability to warg. But then like Dany has the blood of Old Valyria, a special connection with Dragons and Magic.

Besides having a special connection to Wolves and Dragons. Whats so interesting to me is he would be the perfect person to connect the Seven Kingdoms. Being part Stark he would hold favor with the North and be that the Targaryens ruled in the South for hundreds of years would be in favor with the people in Kings Landing. In a way to me if the Targaryens weren't so in to incest and keeping there blood pure, this seems to make make a lot of sense. The North is almost the same size as the rest of Westerous combined. I think Ageon the conquer should have tried to aline with the North in the first place.

[Richard Casey]

What if the jon snow that was attacked was a glamour from mel to show jon what would happen if he did what he did.

[Black Crow]

The chapter is a Jon POV

[armidil0]

I still have a lot of trouble with the Jon in Ghost theory. First it was made pretty clear in the Varamyr prologue that when a warg dies his spirit transfers to a familiar and lives out his (or her) second life there, gradually fading into the host and unable to warg anywhere else, ie; if his original body is dead he can't warg back into it.

Resurrection by Mel a la Thoros says you, well no. In the first place the body is still dead, but more importantly the resurrection magic whether by ice or fire appears to involve both arresting the decay at the point when the magic is done and awakening the spirit sleeping within the body. If Jon's in Ghost, there's nobody home and the body can't be awakened - just as Varamyr's body wasn't with Thistle and the other wights at the end of the prologue.

As to Jon remaining in Ghost, as I've said before that would be a touch limiting - one bark for yes, two barks for no...

I have therefore to go with GRRM's "you think he's dead do you?" and answer probably not. He's certainly badly wounded and he may well be about to spend some time in Ghost, but his body is probably still alive, prevented from bleeding out by the cold - preserved - and he's about to get a visit from the Three Eyed Crow.

This. Thank you Black Crow. I think warging is sending your conscience or mind into an animal and controlling it's actions or behavior, but your 'soul' doesn't transfer. When you die, your conscience/mind AND 'soul' transfer to your animal, so that you can't undo it by simply warging back into your body. If you could, that could potentially make you live a lot longer, and through much more damage than normal, and I don't think GrrM wants to make warging a 'cheat death thing.'

Also, if the body is dead, the wounds can't be healed, just patched up. So if Jon died, warged into Ghost, then Mel or someone 'healed' Jon, and he warged back, he would still be dead. You can't heal a dead body, the hearts not pumping, the brain isn't functioning, and the cells aren't going to scab over the wounds. What you can do is patch it up, sow the wounds shut, ect. But Jon would still be dead when he warged back into his body. (I'm not a doctor, if there is a doctor around, please double check this paragraph).

This is why I think Jon is only unconscious. Kind of in a coma. Because I don't think Mel will bring him back from the dead, or anyone else. If the woodswitch or Val, anyone beyond the Wall, raised someone from the dead, I can see that really turning against them since that's what the Others do, so they would label them a thrall of them and try to kill them, I would suspect.

I'm just giving my PoV on the subject. Please don't kill me.

[TheWildWolf]

grrm has said that dany is not immune to fire just that the particular spell/whatever went on on that occasion protected her.

but what about when she rides Drogon for the first time and he sets her on fire? I can understand how she lost all her hair, but she still wasn't harmed then either...

[Little Wing]

She ducked under the flames while approaching him in the pit, so her hair got burned a bit. Didn't she have bandages on her hands (made from her tokar) in her last chapter from holding onto Drogon during their ride?

Edit: spelling

[Budj]

I don't think Jon would be able to warg into his body if it wasn't alive. So his body will need to be re-animated fully for him to enter it. This makes me question if Mel can even given him the red kiss...if his soul is in ghost then what would happen if his empty body got the kiss of life?

Edit - This is in the event he isn't just in a coma like state.

[wolfmaid7]

True Jon might be in a Coma,but given where his body is, he still is in danger. What will be interesting in WOW is how his physical body will be protected .Mel or the Wildlings may have something to do with that.

Does any body know how GRRM intends to calculate the time i.e when we pick up in WOW how many years would have passed? I don't know if Martin might give us a Jon prologue or a epilogue from the point of view of someone helping him( Ghost).I just have a feeling we won't see Jon until its pertinent.Dead or not,coma or not he needs info from Bran and BR.

A POV from Ghost may not be limiting expecially if we see a journey from the wall to Bran and BR. Think of all the things JON in Ghost can see, and we can see,hear etc all the going ons beyond the wall through him. The way i see it Jon in Ghost = the perfect scout/spy.

[Quiet Isle]

This thread is for those who believe that Jon is dead and will somehow some way be brought back to life. I want to hear your theories (crackpots and all!!!) on his resurrection.

For those who think that he is dead and will not come back, we get it, you truly believe that Mr. Martin wasted his and our time with this character for 5 books only to be murdered in the most cowardly way by his own order. Makes perfect sense.

So anyway, I wrote this in a post on another thread but I wanted to put here anew.

I have put this together via the AA prophecy, Jon's dream in ADwD where he is standing atop the Wall with black armor covered in ice and a flaming sword (don't have my book with me right now, or I'd be more specific) and my own personal wishes for the story. Forgive me.

I believe that he is dead and his soul will warg Ghost for some time. (It would be awesome if GRRM gave us a POV or 2 from this angle) Meanwhile, Mel from her fire-visions will see that she will have to bring Jon back to life via some freaky R'hllor ceremony where she has to burn his body, with his sword, Longclaw, in a pyre instead of the kiss that Thoros uses. (Perhaps it will take her 3 tries, in accordance with the original AA)

Jon will comback as a hybrid version of himself and Ghost, his normal body with a few changes from Ghost (white hair; Targ feature for the R+L = J factor and ice; red eyes, fire), he will then pull his burning sword from the fire and plunge it into the heart of Mel, thus fulfilling the prophecy of AA. And will now be ready to kick some ass against The Others.

(The stone dragon part will come later when he is in the crypts of Winterfell and re-emerges from them with the truth of his parents; haven't quite worked this one out yet but that's what I'm leaning towards, not an actual stone dragon).

Anyway that's my hope for his character or something along those lines.

Agree, except for adding this one thought. His body is going to be put underneath the Wall, where other bodies are stored which somehow magically protects them from becoming wights. He will rise from that area, and will BE the Stone Dragon. and Remember Dany's vision where a single blue rose grows between the chinks of the ice at THE BASE OF THE WALL. That is Lyanna's symbol, Jon's mother. and That's Jon resurrecting. a stone Dragon. But that sword imho is inside or under Lyanna's statue in the crypt. we'll see who brings it to him. Sam?

[Weallknowjonwins]

I just want to chime in on light bringer. Yes, long claw has been forged twice already technically but the second wasn't a forging only a changing of the hilt. Light Bringer is without question IMO Ice, it has been forged twice, Cat has half of it and as far as we know the other half is in King's Landing, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be reforged, plus the title of the series is enough to convince you of that. I can't tell you how excited that makes me and is further evidence that Jon is AA reborn. It will be interesting to see things come together, half the sword is a million miles away. The horn of winter is in old town, and John sees himself with lightbringer on the wall, there is a lot of traveling and doing to be done.

Jon is AA but I don't see him being the prince that was promised, prince by definition implies that your father is king and I can't see any way that fits Jon. Unless Rhaegar Isn't dead, when Ned discovered what had happened maybe he saved him by forcing the black on Rhaegar. Now think about who is that age, tall and handsome with excellent swordsmanship. A noteworthy musician and we have no other than Mance. Now ponder the awesomeness in that crack pot.

[Black Crow]

I disagree that Jon is AA and that Ice is Lightbringer, and would point out that Mance has been Mance long before Rhaegar turned up his toes.

However I'd also like to clarify things on princes. They are not invariably the sons of kings. Martin uses the term in its wider sense of someone of royal blood irrespective of actual rank - a king can be referred to as a prince.

Or rather to put it another way a prince is a generic term for someone of royal blood. Some princes are Dukes and Earls and a fortunate few are Kings, but all are princes.

[What is dead may never die]

IMO, Jon is going to drift in dreams like Bran when Jaime dropped him, then wake up somehow after two pages of drug-high-like visions. In this process, he should finally learn more about the warg thing control. This is not even a theory, but I'd just like to see Jon controling Wun Wun like Bran does with Hodor. :)

Of course being stabbed sometimes is awful, but I doubt the brothers stabbed him that much with a giant bearing a knight as a bloody club besides then. And Jon could survive naturally, with the help of the wildlings healing lore.

And lastly, the theory of Jon "Phoenix" Azor Ahai cleaving the Walkers with a flaming greatsword, whilst verycool, would be completely out of GRRM style, I think.

You do remember that Jon dreams this ^ in ADwD right? I don't have my book with me at the moment but its def in there.

Thanks to all for the replies; lots of great stuff! Please keep it comng!