The Snowman Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 This topic was started by Gurkhal in another section but it wasn't hitting it off and Im really interested in what happened so I just posted it in here. Anyway it's about the conflicts between the Starks and the Boltons in the North across thousands of years. I personally havent heard any mention of a Bolton crown but I have read about The Stark Kings of Winter and the Marsh Kings and yet the Boltons were only fully subdued 700 years ago. If this is supposed to be in another section don't worry about bumping it just let it die (if you can do that mods)This was the original question posted by Gurkhal. Also hope Gurkhal comes to the party so its still their thread :PSomething which I really hope gets cleared up is the historical conflict between the Boltons and the Starks. I would for example would really want to know if the Boltons were kings themselves, maybe Kings of Fear to counter the Kings of Winter in the North, and how the conflict between the two Houses went down through history.Also some history the historical Boltons would be nice. Was Ice-Eyes' mother a Bolton? So far we've seen three Boltons alive and they've been spread all along the line:Domeric - nice guy,Roose - pretty cool but alot of people don't like himRamsay - total scumIf more info about the Boltons comes I would suppose it will come as part of a general history of the North or House Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 True iv never heard of the Boltons being rival Kings. However it has been said before that they were the Starks greatest rivals so itd make sense if they had been.Perhaps they were always a power in their homeland but couldnt get the popular support to be proclaimed Kings due to their shall we say.....tendencies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowman Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 I personally believe that it seems odd that the Boltons could have held off the Starks until 700 years ago while the Starks have been said to BE THE NORTH. Coupled with the sense of duty and respect the other houses (bar Bolton) have for the Starks. Also to think upon why the Starks are called the Kings of Winter and also The King In the North. Was the KITN title only once the Boltons were subdued or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nQthing Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I like the boltons are anti skin changers and that's why they remove the skin from their enemies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I personally believe that it seems odd that the Boltons could have held off the Starks until 700 years ago while the Starks have been said to BE THE NORTH.Coupled with the sense of duty and respect the other houses (bar Bolton) have for the Starks.Also to think upon why the Starks are called the Kings of Winter and also The King In the North. Was the KITN title only once the Boltons were subdued or what?I think you could ask the heretics about the titles. IIRC they went into some detail theorising what each meant but i cant remember what they came up with. It also depends on the timeline, wether the Starks 8000 years figure is wrong or not. If it is 700 years is a long time. Remember also that the Dreadfort is almost unassailable.It took four years i think to take the last time they rebelled. The Boltons also seem to have the second most populous lands in the North after the Manderlys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitakon Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 are there any terrible Stark ruler? After that long history I have never heard of a Mad Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I would think that theyve had their fair share of good and bad rulers. It would be beyond belief if the Starks had all been as good and fair as Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowman Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 I think you could ask the heretics about the titles. IIRC they went into some detail theorising what each meant but i cant remember what they came up with. It also depends on the timeline, wether the Starks 8000 years figure is wrong or not. If it is 700 years is a long time. Remember also that the Dreadfort is almost unassailable.It took four years i think to take the last time they rebelled. The Boltons also seem to have the second most populous lands in the North after the ManderlysWell they did also have the lands that the Stark king gave to the Karstarks after the Boltons were defeated again.I remember reading that one of the Stark Kings defeated the Boltons and beat them back into the Dreadfort where he waited them out for 2 years so they may be powerful but it seems the Starks kicked their ass again and again but just couldn't completely crush themI would think that theyve had their fair share of good and bad rulers. It would be beyond belief if the Starks had all been as good and fair as Ned.The Kings of Winter were described as harder than winter itself. That doesn't sound too friendly and kind. They were the strongest and most fierce and demanded the respect and loyalty of their subjects. Well thats what I get from that description Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitakon Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 i dont mean bad. i mean Aerys MAD. Crazy psycho Cersei mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Well they did also have the lands that the Stark king gave to the Karstarks after the Boltons were defeated again.I remember reading that one of the Stark Kings defeated the Boltons and beat them back into the Dreadfort where he waited them out for 2 years so they may be powerful but it seems the Starks kicked their ass again and again but just couldn't completely crush themThe Kings of Winter were described as harder than winter itself. That doesn't sound too friendly and kind. They were the strongest and most fierce and demanded the respect and loyalty of their subjects. Well thats what I get from that descriptionIt sure is odd that the Starks allowed them to live again and again. There could obviously be a lot we dont know yet. The fact that they once owned Karstark lands as wel would make them formidable indeed. The Boltons have also skinned a few Starks so they have had success but not in the grand scheme of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 i dont mean bad. i mean Aerys MAD. Crazy psycho Cersei mad.in that case no not that we know of. There was one Stark that burnt his fathers fleet after he went missing at sea IIRC but not batshit insane Aerys style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitakon Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It really is counter-productive to destroy a whole House in the north. The north is HUGE. Destroy the House, and you will see that land fallow for a couple of years and banditry rampant. Its not like the Starks can police that whole area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowman Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 The Starks would likely install a submissive bolton to lordship or something like that just to ensure peace, short term piece to start off. Maybe a marriage to help deal the deal perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Stark Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 True iv never heard of the Boltons being rival Kings. However it has been said before that they were the Starks greatest rivals so itd make sense if they had been.Perhaps they were always a power in their homeland but couldnt get the popular support to be proclaimed Kings due to their shall we say.....tendencies?+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Theres always people who can be raised to lordship. For example a Rodrik Cassel figure, who has shown lifelong bravery and loyalty to the StarksIf theres younger Starks as well might as well share the love! There has to be some other compelling reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Stark Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Theres always people who can be raised to lordship. For example a Rodrik Cassel figure, who has shown lifelong bravery and loyalty to the StarksIf theres younger Starks as well might as well share the love! There has to be some other compelling reasonI agree. But I believe House Cassel would start as a Masterly House and not raised to Lords before a family like the Glovers. I wouldn't be surprised it someone (a wildling) is married to Beth Cassel and this happens in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitakon Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 except that Cassel probably don't know the land. Yes in the long term it would have been best. But short term, when you have peasants to feed, lands to till, knights to appease. And probably half those landed knights are related somehow to a Bolton, you can't just change all those land owners in a single night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I agree. But I believe House Cassel would start as a Masterly House and not raised to Lords before a family like the Glovers. I wouldn't be surprised it someone (a wildling) is married to Beth Cassel and this happens in the future.True, but this is depending on how long these houses have been around also. I dont think we know for sure how long the Glovers, Tallharts etc have been sworn to WF. But yes you are correctexcept that Cassel probably don't know the land. Yes in the long term it would have been best. But short term, when you have peasants to feed, lands to till, knights to appease. And probably half those landed knights are related somehow to a Bolton, you can't just change all those land owners in a single night.Of course it would take time, but with Stark backing, both resources, influence and power, surely a new house could be integrated to lordship of the Bolton lands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Stark Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 except that Cassel probably don't know the land. Yes in the long term it would have been best. But short term, when you have peasants to feed, lands to till, knights to appease. And probably half those landed knights are related somehow to a Bolton, you can't just change all those land owners in a single night.I do think that a lot of the men in service to the Boltons will be killed off. Do the Boltons have landed knights? I thought that was just a southern (Manderly) thing. When all is said and done I do think that Bolton's Frey wife could pop out a son and he will be fostered somewhere and raised right, when the time came he would be an acceptable and loyal Lord Bolton. I don't think the Starks will do any baby killing or such, but they could strip the lands, I'm not sure how it will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitakon Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I do think that a lot of the men in service to the Boltons will be killed off. Do the Boltons have landed knights? I thought that was just a southern (Manderly) thing.Yes like the 5th son of the 5th son of his great grand-uncle. I'm sure if they have a son, they probably will place him in some land to call his own. Again the north is HUGE. you can't expect to leave the land fallow. By placing a new lord you will be displacing all those distant cousins with really small lands with just a couple of peasants working for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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