Odds for Tyrion to be King and Sansa to be his Queen?

[Kittykatknits]

Apology? Words are wind. I think that Sansa would take the annulment and run (in the most ladylike manner possible).

True. She'd run and never look back.

Um, an apology for what?

Forced marriage, child bride, taken to the sept practically at sword point, crying all through the ceremony. It took place during book three.

So until now the odds tend to zero, but what the readers want and what happens in ASOIAF are never equel or have any cross section, so it most likely happens ;)

Who said anything about what the readers want? You asked what the odds are and the response so far has been zero based upon individual story arcs and evidence from the text. It's what you want to happen.

Oh lord...just saying that Dany has bedded (or almost bedded) people out of lust, for the most part. She DID consummate her marriage with Hizdahr, but that was a marriage of duty, not of love. She sees the worth of those around her, such as Jorah, Barristan, the Shavepate, just won't consider them for her nightly romps.

As far as Sansa goes, she was in a terrible situation at the time, but even though Tyrion was nothing but kind to her, she never opened up to him. Even slightly. I would say she's paranoid when it comes to Lannisters, at this point. Sansa will marry Harry the Heir, we presume, and have the match with a prominent (soon to be) lord that she always wanted.

This is how these characters have been written so far...has nothing to do with them being women. I would say the same about Robb Stark. He got busy with a nice-looking girl who was helping him cope with his grief, and then married her out of duty. You really don't hear anything about her personality, for the most part.

And the problem with her wanting to bed people out of lust and rejecting those others is a problem how exactly? As to Tyrion, he was kind to her a few times. Surely she should have opened up to him and given him her trust. I mean its not like she was a Lannister hostage and force to marry him or anything. Oh, wait....

Also, look a little closer at the Sansa storyline, she's not going to marry HtH.

[Wouter]

I highly doubt it. Martin has made it a point to reiterate over and over again that although Tyrion would probably be brilliant at ruling a kingdom, there are too many prejudices standing in his way.

He also made a point of the reign of Viserys, the one who "only reigned for a year, but ruled for 15 while Baelor prayed and Daeron warred". Viserys was apparently unpopular, king for about a year only and he was said to have poisoned his nephew (Baelor the pious). Tyrion is a big fan of him.

I don't think the "unpopular" thing would be much of a hindrance. Harren the Black and Maekar the Cruel probably weren't popular but ruled anyway, and so did Joffrey. Balon nor Euron worry about their popularity in the north or the Reach either, and both still wanted to be kings (Euron even over all of Westeros).

It's a good point that Dany has been prepared for queenship by the author, but then she also reflected in her final ADWD chapter that she was a conqueror rather than a ruler. It makes me wonder if Dany will conquer (and rule for awhile), but decide to step back after some time.

And Jon's final ADWD chapter also calls into question his long-range survival IMO - allthough he will likely be in a very good state compared to Beric or Stoneheart, I suspect people who live by magical means (like the named ones and also Melisandre, Victarion,...) are rather unlikely to survive past the end, allthough I'm sure Jon will play a very important role until the very end and he may yet survive it all.

Jon and/or Dany are the obvious candidates to be king and queen (apart or together) in the end, but if they don't end up on the throne at the end then things get way more open.

[Monica21]

Forced marriage, child bride, taken to the sept practically at sword point, crying all through the ceremony. It took place during book three.

My copy of the third book is pretty specific about Tywin forcing the marriage onto Tyrion. But he's dead now, so he can't apologize. Maybe you have a different version though. Or maybe Sansa should apologize to Tyrion for not taking him up on his offer to marry Lancel.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Me too. :laugh:

God, poor Dany. People already call her a slut for sleeping with like, 3 guys ever, and then other people say she should have given a chance to every other male that comes her way. She can't win.

Wait what? People are actually like that with Dany? D:

[mcb]

Molesting her, perhaps?

When Lysa asked her about Tyrion, Sansa's first thought was "he was kind". Doesn't sound like someone who requires apologies from him.

[Wouter]

Or maybe Sansa should apologize to Tyrion for not taking him up on his offer to marry Lancel.

Apologize to the pest for not choosing the cholera?

And what offer, anyway? Joffrey had already ordered her to marry Tyrion, not Lancel. Everything was ready and the guests were waiting, and Cersei's guards were waiting to drag Sansa to the altar if necessary. Tyrion was a bit late with his offer...

And that's one thing he really should apologise for: playing the Lannister partyline and not informing her until the last seconds before the marriage may have been understandable from his perspective, but it was a very unkind thing to do to Sansa. It's no way to treat your wife, showing zero respect and actually making it clear this was a hostile move against her.

[Naathi Prince]

Me too. :laugh:

God, poor Dany. People already call her a slut for sleeping with like, 3 guys ever, and then other people say she should have given a chance to every other male that comes her way. She can't win.

Yea, I'm not her biggest fan but the "dany is promiscuous" stuff is old. Literally every man she meets wants to bone her and she's only ever had one partner by choice? come on.

[CBroome1979]

Well...to act on lust based on looks alone and choose your mates only on this fact...isn't that kind of what shallow is? As far as Sansa goes, it seems she is poised to marry Harry the Heir at the moment...Littlefinger has bought his time from the Lords Declarant, so the only thing that would prevent this marriage is Sansa disappearing or Littlefinger's death (or a host of unforeseen events, I'm sure).

I'm not saying that Sansa's mistrust of Tyrion isn't understandable at all, just that she and Tyrion will NOT end up married happily ever after as king and queen of Westeros.

IIRC, Tyrion did all he could to make life easier for Sansa...as much as was in his power. He could have chosen to not play Lord Tywin's game, but that would have just put Sansa in the hands of someone who DIDN'T care. Tyrion has nothing to apologize for, personally. He could apologize for House Lannister, sure, but he refused to consummate the marriage and treated her gently. Under the circumstances he did the best he thought he could do.

Wouter - I agree with some of your points, but the fact remains that all those kings you mentioned were the rightful heirs of the ruling house. Bad or not, according to law they are entitled to the throne. Not saying Tyrion couldn't be king, he just wouldn't take the throne and become king, he would need to marry the Queen, if a Queen ruled, and none of the likely candidates for Queen seem like they would care for him in that manner.

[Lady Lea]

Wait what? People are actually like that with Dany? D:

Sweet summer child.

[Monica21]

Apologize to the pest for not choosing the cholera?

My point is that Sansa's expectation of an apology is ridiculous and unfounded.

And what offer, anyway? Joffrey had already ordered her to marry Tyrion, not Lancel. Everything was ready and the guests were waiting, and Cersei's guards were waiting to drag Sansa to the altar if necessary. Tyrion was a bit late with his offer...

The offer is no less legitimate. Tywin only cared about Sansa marrying a Lannister. He didn't care which Lannister.

And that's one thing he really should apologise for: playing the Lannister partyline and not informing her until the last seconds before the marriage may have been understandable from his perspective, but it was a very unkind thing to do to Sansa. It's no way to treat your wife, showing zero respect and actually making it clear this was a hostile move against her.

Tyrion is a Lannister. Why should he apologize for being one? If Tyrion was unkind to Sansa then Tywin was no less unkind to Tyrion, and yet Tywin's actions are almost completely ignored and Tyrion is villified for daring to marry.

[Lady Lea]

Well...to act on lust based on looks alone and choose your mates only on this fact...isn't that kind of what shallow is?

Ohhhhhhhhhhh you mean the way Tyrion has chosen everyone of his (many, many) sexual partners ever. (And his 12-yo wife)

I get it now ;)

[CBroome1979]

Not trying to demonize Dany or Sansa...they are children. They are making childish decisions. Dany even admits (to herself) that her flamboyant sellsword lover is a mistake. Not saying they are bad people at all. Just trying to explain why Tyrion is not going to marry either of them.

[Lady Lea]

Not trying to demonize Dany or Sansa...they are children. They are making childish decisions. Dany even admits (to herself) that her flamboyant sellsword lover is a mistake. Not saying they are bad people at all. Just trying to explain why Tyrion is not going to marry either of them.

Well he didn't want an ugly wife either. And he was in his twenties.

[Naathi Prince]

My point is that Sansa's expectation of an apology is ridiculous and unfounded.

The offer is no less legitimate. Tywin only cared about Sansa marrying a Lannister. He didn't care which Lannister.

Tyrion is a Lannister. Why should he apologize for being one? If Tyrion was unkind to Sansa then Tywin was no less unkind to Tyrion, and yet Tywin's actions are almost completely ignored and Tyrion is villified for daring to marry.

I vilify Tyrion for leering over a 12 year old girl and telling her he desires her.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Sweet summer child.

Yeah i am relatively new to the fandom.

Reminds me of the whole "Ginny Weasley is a slut" thing in the Harry Potter fandom.

[Naathi Prince]

Yeah i am relatively new to the fandom.

Reminds me of the whole "Ginny Weasley is a slut" thing in the Harry Potter fandom.

at least the ginny weasley thing can be traced to jealousy. With Dany its pure hatred.

[Florina Laufeyson]

at least the ginny weasley thing can be traced to jealousy. With Dany its pure hatred.

:shocked:

Seriously? Wow i do have a lot to learn...(thats why im here!)

[CBroome1979]

Ha, Tyrion is no better, to be sure, in that regard. And to be fair, he didn't choose Sansa, she was forced on him. Tyrion has a weakness for the flesh, and is desperate for a woman to accept him as he is and parades around with whores a-many in a desperate attempt to soothe his ego. Dany has a weakness for the flesh, and a young woman's regards for a sharp wit, handsome face, and bedtime skills.

Let me repeat, Dany and Sansa are not bad people, and Dany and women in general are not sluts for sleeping with people they find attractive. Just giving evidence for why she ain't gonna bed Tyrion, and neither is Sansa. Please limit your discussion to the context of what I am saying and not the more generalized 'Dany is a nasty slut' discussion.

[Winter's Knight]

Yeah i am relatively new to the fandom.

Reminds me of the whole "Ginny Weasley is a slut" thing in the Harry Potter fandom.

I remember that. Although those were mostly from the H.M.S. Harmony crew.

[brashcandy]

Well...to act on lust based on looks alone and choose your mates only on this fact...isn't that kind of what shallow is?

No that's not what shallow is. Last time I checked, most people would prefer to sleep with those whom they are attracted to. Are you in the habit of bedding persons you find unattractive? Also, you will notice that whilst Sansa doesn't desire Tyrion, she displays signs of liking the Hound, a man who is horribly burnt. Likewise, readers think the way Daario is described is quite unappealing, but Dany likes him.