The Mountain vs Robert Baratheon

[King Aerys the Just]

Size alone is a bit misleading here. Once you include the armour, and account for the weapons being used, size only matters for reach. Considering the size of both men, and their strength, both are overkill capable, neither one is going to be able to shrug off a real hit (as opposed to one the armour sheds and withstands.) Gregor has reach, but he isn't using the weapon (in this fight) to maximize that benefit. Greatswords aren't really good for thrusts, or even slashes, but mostly for hacking or chopping. It's a clumsy weapon. Having said that, Gregor is big enough he can likely make that thing dance, but, still, not a versatile weapon.

A warhammer has a lot more options than you'd think. Head, spike, thrust with it, hook with it, use the haft to block, and the "pommel". Plus, you can shorten your grip, or hold er by the end. You can ever throw the damn thing effectively.

The down side of Gregor's reach is that, using a greatsword means there would be a range where Robert is inside it's effective radius. Robert's own size, armour, and strength mean he'd be less scared of getting close, and far better off close than Oberon was.

Warhammers are hell on ribs and knees, too, and Robert is strong and skilled enough to go for a crippling knee strike.

Gregor and his migraines are a telling weakness. If Robert can even ding the helm a few times, Gregor is going to start to fade. Trust me, a major migraine does not make you a better fighter.

Oh, and inertia - Gregor has to be slower on recoveries, he jast has too much mass to change direction fast.

I figure Gregor gets his best chance right off, catches Rob off guard, and one-shots him. If he misses that, it goes for a longer fight, with Robert having the advantages. If it goes to a clinch, edge to Gregor.

I think this is a very good analysis.

I would also add, though, that Gregor likely has quite poor endurance. First of all this is hinted at by his fight against Oberyn, where he starts panting heavily inside his helm pretty quickly and resorts to more and more desperate moves, and in the last moments of the fight Oberyn has him completely at mercy (before the grappling). Second of all it just makes sense. Heavy people in general tend to have a harder time with endurance, and Gregor's body make heavy men look featherlight...

Since I don't think either his heart or lungs have "scaled up" optimally with the rest of him, his condition being a growth defect and all, they likely wouldn't supply him with oxygen as well as a normal person. People suffering from gigantism actually often die early because of heart problems, so there's that.

So Gregor should be even more dependant on winning early. Maybe simply bull rushing Robert, trying to block the inevitable hammer blow, and then grapple him to the ground and knifing him would work? That would at least let Gregor get some use out of his superior strength. Then again, if that one hammer blow lands well he's fucked... so it's a gamble. Or Robert might just dance away from his lunge and keep hammering him or something, it kind of depends on which kind of fighting style Bob actually tended to use.

[Nukelavee]

Well, that's the thing, Blaaargh...

Gregor is a one man charge - he's all about shock and awe. That doesn't mean he isn't skilled, but, his style will have a lot to do with his size. I agree, it takes time for him to get rolling, and at that point, until he slows, he's unstoppable.

Robert? He's a damn storm, but he's quicker off the start.

I agree, if Robert got too cocky, and tried to withstand the first clash, he's kinda fucked.

With Sandor, you have to remember this - he's had a lifetime to study his brother, which is his main advantage if that fight ever happened.

I'd like to see Doran's guard captain go against the Mountain, or Rob STrong. That would be an interesting fight.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Yeah, good point. Go inside Gregor's greatsword reach. That worked out pretty well for Oberyn Martell. And his sword is probably like a foot and a half longer than Robert's warhammer, lighter, and he can still slice through armor like butter. And he's a foot and a half taller. He's probably got a 2 foot reach on him, a one foot reach for sure. So to the guy that said as you get bigger size matters less, well in boxing or mma 4" is a major reach advantage. Imagine what that would do for Gregor. At this point, let's just take a vote since you guys are obviously all just Robert fans to begin with.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Well, that's the thing, Blaaargh...

Gregor is a one man charge - he's all about shock and awe. That doesn't mean he isn't skilled, but, his style will have a lot to do with his size. I agree, it takes time for him to get rolling, and at that point, until he slows, he's unstoppable.

Robert? He's a damn storm, but he's quicker off the start.

I agree, if Robert got too cocky, and tried to withstand the first clash, he's kinda fucked.

With Sandor, you have to remember this - he's had a lifetime to study his brother, which is his main advantage if that fight ever happened.

I'd like to see Doran's guard captain go against the Mountain, or Rob STrong. That would be an interesting fight.

But that's just like, your opinion, man. Robert Strong IS the Mountain.

edit: Nevermind, I'm an idiot.

[Nukelavee]

Larrythe imp - dude, I think you opinion is just based on liking gregor, and THAT'S your reasoning behind your winner.

Wow, that was easy.

You clearly overlooked the part about being inside the reach of a greatsword isn't a bad spot to be. A greatsword requires huge impacts to be effective, which means leverage, and a movement arc. The impact close to the grip is going to be far less than near the end of it. Being a greatsword, against another guy in what will be the best armour in teh kingdom, it's not going to be able to be turned into a cut on the inside. Close in, it's awkward as fuck, but a warhammer can be punched, or shortgripped.

Oberon isn't Robert. Oberon got fucked because he stopped moving, and wasn't wearing an worthwhile armour. A good helm might have meant he didn't pretty much die on that first punch. But, Robert? He'll be in full plate, and he won't stop to pose and pontificate.

Reach doesn't always win. It's just a small advantage at this kind of thing. Also, just for shits, swords don't deal well with geting hit by warhammers - they break.

Like I said - Gregor for sure if Robert tries to withstand the first rush, edge to Robert during midgame or a long fight. If it goes to grappling, likely Gregor.

[E-Ro]

I'm just wondering if anyone over the age of 12 is into these absurd 'who would win in a fight in x, a most unlikely and hypothetical encounter'.

What the fuck is up your ass? Thanks for contributing to the converstion.

And no no sword can cut through plate you need to thrust at a joint.

[Batman]

How many athletes has there been that are 8 feet tall? Pretty few, I would imagine. And of those, how many of them weighed 420 pounds, mostly muscle? None in recent history. So, all your comparisons are bound to be flawed...

Lebron is 6 foot 8 and Manny is probably around 5 foot 6 tall, both are fit individuals. Does common sense dictate that Manny would be faster of the two in a 100m race?

Your comparisons are flawed because you keep bringing up Lebron who is over a foot shorter and almost 200 pounds lighter. Talk about my comparisons being flawed? When all you talk about is Lebron who is nothing like the Mountain. All I have ever said is that a man who is nearly 8 feet tall could never be as fast as a man 6,6 if they are both athletes. Unless you can bring up an example where that is the case, let it go.

Jorge González was a professional wrestler who stood 7,7 (he was billed as 8 foot) and weighed 460 pounds and he was nowhere near as quick as the the Undertaker who stood roughly 6,8. Great Khali is 7,1 and 347 pounds of muscle and was slower than the Undertaker. Do you really believe that if he were half a foot taller and 80 pounds heavier he would be faster?

[Ropidon]

Robert Baratheon has the blood of kings. The Mountain is more like a ruthless dog. Science does not really measure these things, debate only touches upon them, but the grace of he who would be King is the essence of chivalry.

Chivalry is nearly forgotten in this world (Earth, where this debate is taking place). It is a force of righteousness, something which coarses through a Robert Baratheon and something that the Mountain is bereft of. The greatness of Kings swings Robert's hammer with him, and as large as the Mountain is, no one is on his side to stand against it.

Robert loses his chivalry later and is killed by a boar (fitting). But at the time of the Battle of the Trident, he is in the prime current of the way of Kings and can not be defeated.

[Third World King]

Your comparisons are flawed because you keep bringing up Lebron who is over a foot shorter and almost 200 pounds lighter. Talk about my comparisons being flawed? When all you talk about is Lebron who is nothing like the Mountain. All I have ever said is that a man who is nearly 8 feet tall could never be as fast as a man 6,6 if they are both athletes. Unless you can bring up an example where that is the case, let it go.

Jorge González was a professional wrestler who stood 7,7 (he was billed as 8 foot) and weighed 460 pounds and he was nowhere near as quick as the the Undertaker who stood roughly 6,8. Great Khali is 7,1 and 347 pounds of muscle and was slower than the Undertaker. Do you really believe that if he were half a foot taller and 80 pounds heavier he would be faster?

I wasn't comparing Lebron with the Mountain, I was merely trying to point out how your little hypothesis is false. To say that the Mountain is slower than Robert than Robert, simply because he is a foot and a half taller than the latter is pretty foolish IMO. Well, Lebron is nearly a foot and a half taller than Manny and weighs at least 2 times as Manny, does it automatically mean that he is slower than Manny too?

Does common sense dictate that Manny will be the faster of the two, since he is nearly a foot and a half smaller? Your logic is simply flawed, because it is based on pure assumptions, and no fact whatsoever.

[StannisBamfatheon]

I'm just wondering if anyone over the age of 12 is into these absurd 'who would win in a fight in x, a most unlikely and hypothetical encounter'.

This may help you understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fun

[wolverine]

Larrythe imp - dude, I think you opinion is just based on liking gregor, and THAT'S your reasoning behind your winner.

Wow, that was easy.

Isn't everyone's opinion based on this in these fight threads. You pick the guy you like then you make up reasons why he would win, either purposely or subconsciously.

I don't spend much time in here anymore, but I have seen lots of people extoll Tyrion's fighting prowess to no end to try and argue their viewpoint.

[Nukelavee]

Let's be more accurate, TWK - who is faster, a sumo wrestler, or a thai kick boxer?

Happy?

Seriously, size and speed are pretty closely related, and why bring up sports where ground speed (running) is central, in a topic where it isn't much of a deal.

Speed, here, is reflex/reaction, and inertia. Gregor is like a King Tiger - he carries as much armour and as big a weapon as he can, which is effective, but, he isn't fast. He can't stop and start as quick as a smaller man, he can't change direction as quickly..

Just accept Gregor's advantages are that he is huge, and can deliver huge blows, and can take a lot of hits.