acermaniac Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 This theory has been thrown around quite a bit in the threads I've seen. True, I could see it being implied in the book starting way back from Arya getting off the ship and being driven home in the meeting.But what confuses me is...isn't the whole point of the Faceless Man is that they are "No one"?Then how can "No one" know anyone?It seems to me, either their training isn't as successful as we may believe (They are worried about FMs; even experienced ones, not being able to kill people they're familiar with)or Arya has been mislead and FM's aren't actually supposed to be "No one". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 They are not literally "no one" - the point is they master the art of deception to the degree they can subsume their own identity completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 As Pod the Impaler said, the training is not an attempt to literally wipe out one's entire identity. One's identity can't be completely wiped clean. It's about learning the art of deception and becoming successful spies and infiltrators. Arya plays many different parts even while she's learning how to be 'no one' - Cat of the Canals, Beth the Beggar, the ugly girl. It's as 'Arya' that she moves on the next levels of training. Not taking a contract for a person one knows pretty much screams out that Faceless Men aren't robotic blank slates. It appears they cultivate assassinations who do not kill for personal reasons nor are they interested in assassins who let personal motivations compromise a contract. It's safer to keep all foreseeable emotion out of the killing and so they encourage members not to accept contracts for people they know. Perhaps the FM who knows the person will feel pity and not want to complete the contract thus marring the reputation of success the FM organization seems to have cultivated or perhaps the FM actually hates the person they are sent to kill and they make mistakes that jeopardize the mission to make assassinations look like accidents. Then there is always the potential to be recognized, either by face or by mannerism if one is glamoured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 To clarify, its someone they knew before becoming a Faceless Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tyrion Lannister! Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Not having to kill a person you know eliminates emotion from the equation. The FM aren't robots, they will still feel something for someone they know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalf the Grey Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Not taking a contract for a person one knows pretty much screams out that Faceless Men aren't robotic blank slates. It appears they cultivate assassinations who do not kill for personal reasons nor are they interested in assassins who let personal motivations compromise a contract. It's safer to keep all foreseeable emotion out of the killing and so they encourage members not to accept contracts for people they know. Perhaps the FM who knows the person will feel pity and not want to complete the contract thus marring the reputation of success the FM organization seems to have cultivated or perhaps the FM actually hates the person they are sent to kill and they make mistakes that jeopardize the mission to make assassinations look like accidents. Then there is always the potential to be recognized, either by face or by mannerism if one is glamoured.Yeah I agree, but remind me where is it written that they don't take contracts from people they know?Anyway, imo, Arya becoming a FM means disattaching herself from hatred. Hence forget the list. She kills who she's told to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 To clarify, its someone they knew before becoming a Faceless Man.I think that anyone they know personally from the time they were any of their identities counts. The ideal state is if they didn't met the person before they had to kill him/her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Yeah I agree, but remind me where is it written that they don't take contracts from people they know?Anyway, imo, Arya becoming a FM means disattaching herself from hatred. Hence forget the list. She kills who she's told to.Firstly, when Arya sails to Braavos, all the sailors keep reminding her of their names, and ask her to remember them. She's shown the captain her iron coin, so they know she's going to receive FM training.Secondly, the Kindly Man chastises her when she kills Dareon. He tells her they don't kill based on emotion or personal reasons.Thirdly, Arya is present at a FM meeting, where they are assigning a client. They go around the table, and several FM say "I know this man, I cannot accept this contract", until one says "I do not know this man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 It goes furhter than simply knowing someone personally. The point is to avoid having preconceived notions or desires about the fate of the intended target. As such, anybody with any political significance in Westeros is out of the question for Arya as an official assignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor's Hound Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 To what degree does a Faceless Man must know a person?For example, Lord Tywin.Everyone knows him.Can a man kill Lord Tywin?Or must a man know him personally to be excused from the assignment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Blonde Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 So thinking about this I believe I've encountered some contradictory information.“The name… can I name anyone? And you’ll kill him?”Jaqen H’ghar inclined his head. “A man has said.”“Anyone?” she repeated. “A man, a woman, a little baby, or Lord Tywin, or the High Septon, or your father?”“A man’s sire is long dead, but did he live, and did you know his name, he would die at your command.”Does this lend further credence to the idea that Jaqen is a 'rogue' Faceless Man? Or was it the 'special circumstances', the fact that the "Red God is owed three deaths" that allows Jaqen to break the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 To what degree does a Faceless Man must know a person?For example, Lord Tywin.Everyone knows him.Can a man kill Lord Tywin?Or must a man know him personally to be excused from the assignment?I'm sure some of the FM are from far enough away to never have heard of Tywin honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give Cersei some LOVE Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I'm sure some of the FM are from far enough away to never have heard of Tywin honestly.or there is a difference between "So that is Lord Tywin" and "That is Lord Tywin" but yes Twitter doesn't exist. So people like Kim Kardashian can't be famous all around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayce Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 The "rules" we learn about the FM from Arya and the way Jaqen conducts himself contradict one another, more then once. Either Jaqen is not the kind of FM (is there more then 1 kind?) that Arya is training to become or he is special in some way or he just is not an FM.Also I think the whole "No One" business is simply teaching Arya to lie without being detected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give Cersei some LOVE Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 what rules are this that Jaqen conducts himself different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostcause Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I think it comes down to knowing the person, not their reputation.So in the case of Tywin, unless Arya had met him, and recalled his person, she could take a task to kill him. Otherwise why would the sailors insist on she knowing them by name and not just "sailor X on the ship I came over with".I think it's a practical rule, much like the rule of the NW not to make a family after taking his vow. Simply to ensure no loyalties get mixed up with the task at hand.The whole deal with Jaqen feels like it was a personal debt, more than a FM debt. Like already said, in spite of the "No one" training, they still retain who they were before becoming a FM. Jaqen was saved from certain death, it seems like the promise he gives Arya is of a personal belief and nature. Would also explain his insistence on it being the Red God needing the kills for balance reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayce Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 what rules are this that Jaqen conducts himself different?“The name… can I name anyone? And you’ll kill him?”Jaqen H’ghar inclined his head. “A man has said.”“Anyone?” she repeated. “A man, a woman, a little baby, or Lord Tywin, or the High Septon, or your father?”“A man’s sire is long dead, but did he live, and did you know his name, he would die at your command.”For starters. Here he states that had Arya known his fathers name, if he father were alive he would die. Where as we know from Arya's training chapters that an FM can not take such an assignment;Arya is present at a FM meeting, where they are assigning a client. They go around the table, and several FM say "I know this man, I cannot accept this contract", until one says "I do not know this man".I will try to get other examples (if I haven't over-exaggerated and can find others!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayce Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Not a rule, but I also find his "3 lives for the Red God" odd and not in keeping with how the Kindly Man teaches Arya (so far). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give Cersei some LOVE Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 “A man’s sire is long dead, but did he live, and did you know his name, he would die at your command.”That's no real proof. A man can know the name of his father but don't know his father. I hear half the children in that world are bastards.Not a rule, but I also find his "3 lives for the Red God" odd and not in keeping with how the Kindly Man teaches Arya (so far).i'm pretty sure the kindly man emphasizes that all these gods are one and the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostcause Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 That's no real proof. A man can know the name of his father but don't know his father. I hear half the children in that world are bastards.He does know that his father is long dead though, which would suggest he knows of him and his fate. Heck maybe he killed him himself before becoming a FM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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