Stannis & Dany

[Kobayashi Maru]

Ok then :cheers:

Of course he is alive...But maybe baby dragons get killed, or die from the winter and the cold or even rebel against her and stay in Essos.. :dunno:

I don't believe this would happen. GRRM made this a big magical once in a life time event. Maybe one would die,but not all of them.

Back on topic...

It is now so much a question how Stann would be convinced but would he let himself be convinced. I believe his sense of justice would swing him in the bending knee direction. Man refused to put "my beloved brother " in the letter because it wasn't true but included "Ser Jaime" because it was true. He will do just thing in the end.

[Kobayashi Maru]

Her house? Har! She's the only Targaryen left ( since we still don't know what Aegon really is ). And thank The Gods for that.

Considering it only takes one to sit on the throne...one is enough.

[Tony Soprano]

Considering it only takes one to sit on the throne...one is enough.

And who will rule after her? Drogon?

[lostcause]

No doubt they are ruling and the king/s but her house and her have not sworn fealty to them so therefore he/them is not her leige lord.

Take your pick then, she can be called a usurper, an invading hostile horde of barbarians, a rebel. Either way, she's taking up arms against the sworn King of the land she invades.

She won't be a conqueror until she has succeeded.

I don't think she'd ever accept Aegon as true, I bet she'd ask him to step into a fire first.

[Kobayashi Maru]

And who will rule after her? Drogon?

I don't believe she can't have children. So her children after her.

[Antonius Pius]

If YG is Aegon and she just takes away the throne she is a usurper, but since she would not be able to just take the throne because he has powerful allies, she would have to kill him which will make her a kinslayer.

If ! Big if imho. I just don't see rightful king of Westeros popping out in fifth book...but it's another issue.

She could also marry him. The dragon has three heads and all that...

[Kobayashi Maru]

She could also marry him. The dragon has three heads and all that...

He is willing.

[Antonius Pius]

And able, I assume.

[Tini]

Her house? Har! She's the only Targaryen left ( since we still don't know what Aegon really is ). And thank The Gods for that.

No member of her House, living or dead, has sworn fealty. As long as she lives, as long as people still follow her, her House still exists. And since we don't know what Aegon is, we cannot say that she is the last Targaryen left. We do know, however, that he has not sworn fealty, either.

And even if Dany never has children, she might still adopt an heir to continue her line.

[Third World King]

I don't think Stannis will bend his knee to Dany, he's too stubborn and stupid to do that. He's sort of like a Jorah, instead of a Tyrion- he would rather be killed in battle rather than peacefully admitting defeat at the hands of a superior force.

Anyhow, Stannis will meet his doom at the hands of a vengeful Daenerys, who will slay the lie (fake AA).

[Alayne's Shadow.]

History is written by the winners. If she wins, she'll be Daenerys the Conqueror.

I compare it to the situation in England in 1066 - Harold Godwin was ruling, but William (Then know as 'The Bastard') took the English throne after winning Hastings. Result? He's know as William 'The Conqueror'. It's a very similar situation, because then William didn't had the 'De facto' control of England, like Dany does not, but he had the Claim. And if someone has a claim to the throne, It's not 'Usurping'. Robert rebelled when he in fact, had no claim to the Iron Throne. Dany's House got deposed, yes, but they still have a claim. Like Edgar Aetheling could have taken the throne in the name of the Wessex Dynasty in 1066 (He was in fact the true heir to Edward the Confessor, but he was still an early teen, like Dany), and he wouldn't be called an Usurper. Why? Because before Harold, the Wessex dynasty had ruled for centuries. You can't just 'Unclaim' someone.

[Kaukolainen]

And even if Dany never has children, she might still adopt an heir to continue her line.

But would the heir have any more legitimacy than Hot Pie? The heir couldn't be of Targaryen line, which seems to be the main argument used against Stannis.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

History is written by the winners. If she wins, she'll be Daenerys the Conqueror.

I compare it to the situation in England in 1066 - Harold Godwin was ruling, but William (Then know as 'The Bastard') took the English throne after winning Hastings. Result? He's know as William 'The Conqueror'. It's a very similar situation, because then William didn't had the 'De facto' control of England, like Dany does not, but he had the Claim. And if someone has a claim to the throne, It's not 'Usurping'. Robert rebelled when he in fact, had no claim to the Iron Throne. Dany's House got deposed, yes, but they still have a claim. Like Edgar Aetheling could have taken the throne in the name of the Wessex Dynasty in 1066 (He was in fact the true heir to Edward the Confessor, but he was still an early teen, like Dany), and he wouldn't be called an Usurper. Why? Because before Harold, the Wessex dynasty had ruled for centuries. You can't just 'Unclaim' someone.

Well the whole claim thing is quite messed up. I think that the logical and reasonable think after a revolution is that the overthrown family loses everything and the threat of them must eliminated with every way and by any cost.

I think that is pretty clear that someone else not Dany is the Bastard, true AAR, winner final king etc in this series

[Dany4eva]

Her house? Har! She's the only Targaryen left ( since we still don't know what Aegon really is ). And thank The Gods for that.

I meant it as her ancestors did not swear fealty to baratheons and thus even thru extension, there is no fealty sworn and thus, she cannot be considered a ursurper as she is not going against any oath she/or her family before her has taken to serve baratheons.

[Dany4eva]

Not impossible, but I don't think he will either. I can't see it.

"Aegon" has a better claim. It doesn't matter if he's a targ or some peasants son. If Dany takes the throne from Aegon she will be a usurper in the eyes of the Westerosi. It's something she will have to confront, is Dany willing to become a usurper to take the throne.

If he is not a targ then it is not usurping. Yes maybe westeros will believe he is a targ and they might see her as a usurper and kinslayer. At the moment stannis is the kinslayer.

[Fat Mac]

Going back to the original purpose of the thread... I don't know where this idea of "Stannis will bend the knee to any Targaryen" theory comes from. Yes, he had a moral dilemma choosing between his brother and his king, between duty and family. But, he helped Robert win the throne, and upon discovering that Robert's children were not his, knew himself the rightful heir. In no way has he even considered Viserys or Daenerys because they are simply not the heirs of Robert.

If you ask me, neither Dany nor Stannis will end up with what they desire most, which sucks since I like Stannis a lot. However, I feel like Stannis will die in a heroic attempt to save the realm. A bit iffy on Dany but to sum it up no way in all the seven hells nor whatever hell R'hllor believes in would it even cross his mind for the slightest of seconds to even consider bowing to Dany.

[Dany4eva]

Take your pick then, she can be called a usurper, an invading hostile horde of barbarians, a rebel. Either way, she's taking up arms against the sworn King of the land she invades.

She won't be a conqueror until she has succeeded.

I don't think she'd ever accept Aegon as true, I bet she'd ask him to step into a fire first.

I am not sure how the whole aegon thing will play out. if he has an awesome way of proving to her then she may step aside. Move to the house with the red door maybe? (Its mentioned sooo many times so I feel she may end up there either stepping down for jon or aegon)

I think she might be happy to find she still has family in the world but then again the burden of proof falls to aegon and he better be able to prove himself. Maybe riding a dragon? Dany will hear what happened to quentyn so she will think only a true targ can ride the dragons and that can be a tool to prove his heritage.

[Kobayashi Maru]

I believe he would choose to bend the knee if he find it's just thing to do. He killed his brother because he thought it was a right thing to do.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Well the whole claim thing is quite messed up. I think that the logical and reasonable think after a revolution is that the overthrown family loses everything and the threat of them must eliminated with every way and by any cost.

I think that is pretty clear that someone else not Dany is the Bastard, true AAR, winner final king etc in this series

You can do another one in history that suits more Daenerys : Edward the Confessor had his throne taken for fifteen years. Result? Fifteen years later, he left the exile and took back his throne with Fire and Blood. :drunk: He put the Wessex dynasty back into the English throne. But History aside, claims work like that. You don't "lose" when you lose the throne. As long as there is a claimant alive, there's still the chance they could rise up against you. Edgar Aetheling was offered several times the chance to rebel against William 'The Conqueror'. It's awful, because you're never safe, but then, when someone really is?

And yes, Jon is the Bastard. But I like him, so I won't enter in that merit. And I believe he's the AAR, so... :bowdown:

[Fat Mac]

I believe he would choose to bend the knee if he find it's just thing to do. He killed his brother because he thought it was a right thing to do.

Killing his brother wasn't the "right" thing to do, it was the smart thing to do. Renly's host=100,000. Stannis's host=5,000. Stannis knew he wouldn't win that one. And neither Renly nor Daenerys were Robert's heir, so he would not find it the just thing to do; if he bent the knee.