Theory on Maggy's prophecy and new definition for 'Volanqar'

[SulliedOne]

Maggy: ''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said.

Circei's children all have gold colored hair (their crowns), and it is their light hair-color that gives away the "secret" of their birth (which would cause their figurative deaths as royalty).

[SulliedOne]

AAGGGGAAAA

The valonqar is "the younger Brother" in Valyrian.

Who had Valyrian blood? Robert.

Robert was her biggest foe, and she killed him.

Because of they were married, Stannis is her younger brother too.

valongar = Stannis.

Yikes - good call! I had simply assumed the valonqar was Jaime (because he is younger by a couple of seconds), but I like your Valyrian-language link theory.

[ab aeterno]

I think you have to consider GRRM's desire to be unpredictable in context. He does want to surprise the reader, but the books to date have a pretty traditional setup-payoff structure and he's never really dropped in a major twist from the clear blue sky without foreshadowing it in some fashion. So I don't think that he's just going to let the valonqar prophecy dangle without paying it off. So there are always clues beforehand, and the very obsessive (which includes most people here) can still predict many major plot developments in advance, even if they play as unpredictable for most of the readers.

Also, the longer the series goes on, the easier it should get to predict (in broad strokes) because we know largely what kind of story this is now. It was easy for GRRM to misdirect us into believing that Ned was the hero once upon a time because it was the first book, but something on that level would be harder now.

Agreed. The everpresent contradiction of fiction is that good fiction is unpredictable but good fiction must always be logical; unlike real life, ficiton has to make sense. We won't be able to predict everything, but given all the information that we have, unless GRRM makes 2+ books of deus ex machinas and random, illogical developments, we should be able to make broad predictions.

[aryagonnakill]

FACELESS MEN CANNOT KILL PEOPLE THEY KNOW. it CAN'T be arya. THAT'S CANON.

I'll certainly agree that Arya isnt the valonqar, but faceless men can choose to lie about knowing people, or they can kill them on their own without orders. As powerful as they are the faceless men are not all seeing gods.

[Lightstar]

Couldn't "The Little brother" be Loras if Cersei gets Margery killed?

[TheMtThatRides...Your Mom]

AAGGGGAAAA

The valonqar is "the younger Brother" in Valyrian.

Who had Valyrian blood? Robert.

Robert was her biggest foe, and she killed him.

Because of they were married, Stannis is her younger brother too.

valongar = Stannis.

Plus, don't we now know that Stannis likes to choke a bitch from the TV show?

EDIT: Maybe that scene wasn't as random as I thought?

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

There is a lot of interplay with the arcs of jamie and tyrion wanting cersei dead and tyrion with his own hands. So I think its likely either. More likely jamie since his shit with cersei has been escalating . But I wonder if the true younger queen that will bring her down is dany. She sees it as margery because she is younger and beautiful. But dany is the one who's song is ice and fire. So we'll see.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Circei's children all have gold colored hair (their crowns), and it is their light hair-color that gives away the "secret" of their birth (which would cause their figurative deaths as royalty).

Yes! (: a baratheon 'gold shroud'.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

On a side note here, has anyone researched the Norse Mythology of Ragnarok and Flimbwinter (that could be spelled wrong). It is SPOT on for what is going on in ASOIAF. also, has anyone researched the BRAHAN SEER of scotland. you know, like BRAN. like greenseer. LIKE BRANSEER. very interesting parallels. By the way his last name was ODHAR. like other. the OTHERS. connection? you decide.

Lol at first I was like hodor? Lol th others though interesting. Of course this story has worldwide history roots all over the pplace not just nordic..

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Yikes - good call! I had simply assumed the valonqar was Jaime (because he is younger by a couple of seconds), but I like your Valyrian-language link theory.

1. Don't ever make assumptions

2. I think stannis is still unlikely his arc is going in a different direction. There is absoultely no foreshadowing of him wanting to strangle cersei. The only clue is that the prediction is the little brother and not your little brother. I don't like that theory I think it was just the maegi's way of speaking she was foreign remember.

[Maester Tormund]

1. Don't ever make assumptions

2. I think stannis is still unlikely his arc is going in a different direction. There is absoultely no foreshadowing of him wanting to strangle cersei. The only clue is that the prediction is the little brother and not your little brother. I don't like that theory I think it was just the maegi's way of speaking she was foreign remember.

You just made an assumption

[ab aeterno]

Thinking about it last night, although I've long thought Tyrion an unlikely candidate, I suppose that it's possible that it will by Tyrion, but that Cersei brought it all upon herself by hating Tyrion and treating him cruelly because she thought he was the "valonquar," and her poor treatment of him turned him against he. That would more or less fit into an ironic resolution for the prophesy, I suppose.

[Harle The Handsome]

And I'd like to point out that Jaime has two hands -- one flesh, and one golden. I missed the part where Maggy the Frog said, "the valonqar shall wrap his two original hands of flesh, not made of gold and definitely neither having been a replacement for a hand cut off, about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

I'd also like to point out that prophecies aren't guaranteed to come true, either, but but points seem to go over the head of everyone on this board.

OK....so let me explain this a little slower... "The valonquar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat..." The plural form was used, meaning both hands have sufficient flexibility to wrap around said throat.

I missed the part where Maggy said, "the valonquar shall wrap his good hand around your pale white throat, while pawing you with his golden stump, and choke the life out of you." How exactly do you expect Jaime to wrap a metal stump around anyone's throat?

[Davos' fingertip]

^ but if Maggy said all those details it would be kind of obvious, wouldn't it? If he managed to pick up a glass with his new hand i'm pretty sure he can wrap it around someone's neck. It makes enough sense.

[aryagonnakill]

OK....so let me explain this a little slower... "The valonquar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat..." The plural form was used, meaning both hands have sufficient flexibility to wrap around said throat.

I missed the part where Maggy said, "the valonquar shall wrap his good hand around your pale white throat, while pawing you with his golden stump, and choke the life out of you." How exactly do you expect Jaime to wrap a metal stump around anyone's throat?

Just for arguments sake i've seen a few people on here post that they believe Thoros will animate jaime's gold hand.

[Arya Nymeria Stark]

Maggy: ''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the volanqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

^ I think looking at this chronologically, it implies that all of Cersei's kids will die before the Volanqar kills her. So this could suggest Tommen and Myrcella will soon die, which will surely drown Cersei in tears.

As for the volanqar, it is said to mean little brother, but i think that is a big red herring. I might be over-thinking, but notice how it says 'The volanqar'. Why would Maggy call it 'The Little brother'?

''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the little brother shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

it would make much more sense for it to be 'Your little brother', wouldn't it? What is my point? My point is that looking at the whole passage, it makes sense that the volanqar could in fact mean father instead of little brother. In the passage the kids are mentioned, and then 'the volanqar', i think 'the father' would fit in perfectly, after mentioning the kids.

Read it like this. Maggy: ''Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,'' she said. ''And when your tears have drowned you, the father shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you''

It also makes sense cause before in the same prophecy, Maggy mentions that Robert will have many kids, and Cersei will have three, and then she mentions how the kids will have golden crowns and golden shrouds, but whats missing? The father. The whole part of the prophecy seems to be missing who will be the father to these children. Cersei asked about the children she will have, don't you think Maggy would have found out that her children will actually only be through incest? which is why i'm pretty sure 'The Volanqar' means the father (Jaime) and not little brother, which doesn't fit in the passage at all

You do make a good point, pay attention to the language. Maggy said the volanqar, or the little brother, but it's kind of vague. Who's little brother is she talking about? I think the prophecy could refer to someone getting revenge on the Lannisters from any situation in which they were involved.

1. Joffrey killed Ned Stark. Benjen is Ned's younger brother, so maybe he will one day break his NW vows and get revenge.

2. The Lannisters were involved in planning the Red Wedding in which Robb Stark was killed. Bran and Rickon are his younger brothers. Maybe one of them will lash out against the Lannisters.

3. Catelyn Stark/Tully also died at the Red Wedding. Maybe Brynden will face the Lannisters.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

You just made an assumption

Really did I say I assumed??? No I'm not assuming anything. Just having an idea.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Couldn't "The Little brother" be Loras if Cersei gets Margery killed?

Yeah agreed. But loras did have a pot of boiling oil dumped on him >_<

[ab aeterno]

Loras has little brothers. But he was he first born to ser kevan

Loras Tyrell, not Lancel Lannister. Ser Loras was/is Mace Tyrell's third son.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Loras Tyrell, not Lancel Lannister. Ser Loras was/is Mace Tyrell's third son.

Omg your right hahaha. I was just skimming too many posts at once