How good was Rhaegar's fighting skills?

[Helgar]

Rhaegar's fighting skills should not be doubted, I think. I am among the first to spit the character for a reckless, wife-cheating bastard on a personal level, but there is nothing in the series that even suggests that Rhaegar was anything less than... good. Whether he was good, great, elite or beyond godlike is up to interpretation, and these 4-odd, soon-to-be-5, pages are just attempts at twisting the evidence that we have. Either way, it doesn't matter. Rhaegar's first battle was against Robert Baratheon in his prime. You don't get much more unlucky than that.

Also, it isn't said anywhere in the books that Robert's and Rhaegar's fight was "long". It was probably pretty short, considerably less than 5 minutes. The terrain was slippery, there was rain everywhere, and a part of the battle was being fought on the riverbanks. These are not favorable conditions for dancing around, dodging blows and prolonging the battle. That's the kind of thing that happens on 1-on-1 duels, such as Gregor vs Oberyn.

[The BlackBear]

Ned Stark KILLED Arthur Dayne, obviously he IS the best.

And Ilyn KILLED Ned. Ser Illyn is the best!

[Independent George]

Rhaegar defeated Barristan and Arthur Dayne at several tourneys so he was obviously an excellent jouster, even if he rarely entered tournaments. Obviously no one would want to risk hurting the Crown Prince, but Arthur was Rhaegar's best friend and I doubt he went easy on him. Barristan remembers that, if only he had managed to defeat Rhaegar, he could have prevented all of the terrible things that followed that tournament.

I agree with your larger point, but I have to quibble on the details here. Rhaegar defeated Barristan and Arthur Dayne at one tournament, in the joust - a highly formal, ritualized contest that has very little to do with battle. I believe Robert was a renowned champion in the melee - a violent, chaotic, bloody affair that actually does simulate the battlefield rather well.

I stand by my general impression that Rhaegar was athlete who trained at war, while Robert was a warrior through and through.

[Lyanna Stark]

With his teachers (Dayne, Hightower, Whent, Martell, Selmy) even Sam would be a good fighter.

The fighter (like an athlete) is tested and proven himself in the stadium/battle not in the training.

Sam would by that definition be better than Arthur Dayne, since Dayne died against Ned, but Sam won against an Other, and an Other is per definition harder to kill than any man. Hence best fighter in Westeros = Samwell Tarly, by your definition.

[Ned's Epic Beard]

And Ilyn KILLED Ned. Ser Illyn is the best!

He beheads Ned, there wasn't a one-to-one fight between Ned and Illyn. And we know there was b/w ned and dayne

[Ned's Epic Beard]

Robert was great fighter but not better then Barriston or dayne, who are the best of the best in Westerosi world. Robert defeated Rhaegar in real fight which make Rhaegar an inferior fighter to Robert.

One can categorize Rhaegar as a 3rd level warrior. Good fighter but not exceptional. 2nd level warriors are Robert, Ned and Jorah morment and the 1st are Barriston, Jaime and Dayne.

[The BlackBear]

I was under the impression Ned wasn't that great. I'm certain he wasn't better than Rhaegar. I'm also pretty sure Jorah isn't all that phenomenal either.

[Jordouche]

Ned Stark KILLED Arthur Dayne, obviously he IS the best.

Howland Reed* ;)

To Rhaegar being a coward: That is ridiculous and it doesn't even need a discussion.

How good are Rhaegars fighting skills?

I think it's hard to say exactly, the first thing I want to mention is that mounted combat is very much a part of 'fighting' at the time... and as people have said, Rhaegar was obviously an excellent jouster and among the best. It seems that most people in this thread seem to think that jousting is just this elaborate fun thing that knights do purely for show, which is far from the truth.

Second, I don't think Barristan's words to Dany about Rhaegar were sweetened at all (although his words on Aerys were...).

Also, like someone has mentioned earlier, I think Aerys did underestimate the fact that the Targaryen throne could be overthrown by rebels and thought that the likes of Randyll Tarly and Jon Connington could handle it. It wasn't until he realised as to just how much of a threat the rebellion was that he called for his son.

To add to that, if Rhaegar wasn't a good warrior then I feel that his father (who is known for being slightly paranoid) would not have sent for him to lead an extremely important battle. Why was the throne considered all but won after Rhaegar fell If he was just a mediocre fighter?

Finally, my views on Rhaegar have always been that he is the closest thing to being the 'perfect' character that we know from most fantasy stories. Yes, he isn't perfect, we know that he had troubles and it is not proven that he did not abduct and rape Lyanna Stark but from reading the book, he is the only person I can think of that nobody says a bad thing about the guy except from Robert, who was clearly biased. Even Ned never says a bad word or agrees with Robert about the things he says about Rhaegar. So, in relation to this thread the guy is near perfect and was admired by, funnily enough, just about everyone who has been mentioned in this thread for being 'the elite' I don't think people such as Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy and Jaime Lannister would respect the guy if he wasn't a extremely formidable fighter.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Jousting is stupid.

I don't think rhaegar was nearly that good a fighter. Like jamie pre'storm.

But he was capable. Well trained. And smart.

[mcb]

Robert was great fighter but not better then Barriston or dayne, who are the best of the best in Westerosi world. Robert defeated Rhaegar in real fight which make Rhaegar an inferior fighter to Robert.

One can categorize Rhaegar as a 3rd level warrior. Good fighter but not exceptional. 2nd level warriors are Robert, Ned and Jorah morment and the 1st are Barriston, Jaime and Dayne.

That goes against pretty much everything what was said about Robert. In his prime, he was simply one of the very best fighters on the continent, that's acknowledged by pretty much everyone if the books. Bob weaker than Barristan and Jaime and equal to Jorah Mormont (who in turn was somehow better than Rhaegar)? Please elaborate how did you figure out with this hierarchy.

[The Fallen]

` I wouldn't go so far as to call Rhaegar a coward. But there's just something off about his behavior during the kidnapping of Lyanna and the aftermath, which was Robert's Rebellion.

I find it hard to believe that Rhaegar didn't, at the very least, assume that there would be fallout from his actions. Maybe not a rebellion, but at least the Starks looking to restore the honor of their house.

Barty is right in questioning what Rhaegar was doing. There's no way we can justify word not reaching him for more than half a year. Not when the Lord of one of the top three houses in Westeros and his heir have been killed by the king. Not when the North, the Vale, the Stormlands and the Riverlands mobilize for war. Which is then followed by the remainder of the realm molizing for war. When skirmishes and battles begin in the Stormlands and Reach and later the Riverlands. That is too many big events happening for Rheagar not to have realized what was going on.

I'm not saying Rhaegar was a coward, but I think it's valid to ask what he was doing throughout this period?

[naik2902]

I agree with your larger point, but I have to quibble on the details here. Rhaegar defeated Barristan and Arthur Dayne at one tournament, in the joust - a highly formal, ritualized contest that has very little to do with battle. I believe Robert was a renowned champion in the melee - a violent, chaotic, bloody affair that actually does simulate the battlefield rather well.

I stand by my general impression that Rhaegar was athlete who trained at war, while Robert was a warrior through and through.

he was bookish in his early days but what was that magic thing did rhaegar found in his childhood that change his life and turned him into skilled fighter. whats missing here ??

[AvengerofWinterfell]

I would say the Rhaegar was a skilled fighter but not a particularly great warrior. From what I gather, he was considered well above average in the skills of warfare such as jousting and sword play. However, being a true warrior requires a degree of ferocity that Rhaegar's personality seems to lack IMO. When two men of relatively equal skill such as Rhaegar and Robert meet in battle, the man with the more ferocious manner wins more often than not because he has the demeanor of refusing to lose as opposed to expecting to win.