Sansa's hold on littlefinger

[FittleLinger]

Well, maybe things have kind o been leaning that way. That he could have no weakness except for his unhealthy "love" issues.

But many men have "closed their hearts" for a lot less, and have not been as brilliant as him, and IMO the only thing that could crack them at the end is their original "love", and now Cat is dead. I mean, Sansa as her replacement to him - well, maybe, in a way, but he knows she is not Cat. And as some people have elaborated - recently his love for her was more the idea of her, and he's compensating it through gaining power. And he's doing a pretty great job.

I know you all see my nickname and avatar and maybe you assume I just want him to "succeed", but now, I am not an obsessed fanboy (unlike Littlefinger himself), and could pretty much see him dying easily.

But, wouldn't it be cool storytelling, and both really Martin-y (which are almost the same thing in my book) if the arguably) evil, plotting, clever villain, who obviously has some issues, but is playing a successful game so far, wins at the end? Just like it sometimes happens in real life. That's of course, if when you look at the larger Ice and Fire picture, you could actually see someone as winning.

[the Scorpion Knight]

Well, maybe things have kind o been leaning that way. That he could have no weakness except for his unhealthy "love" issues.

But many men have "closed their hearts" for a lot less, and have not been as brilliant as him, and IMO the only thing that could crack them at the end is their original "love", and now Cat is dead. I mean, Sansa as her replacement to him - well, maybe, in a way, but he knows she is not Cat. And as some people have elaborated - recently his love for her was more the idea of her, and he's compensating it through gaining power. And he's doing a pretty great job.

no weakness ? his own pride is a blinding weakness

he didn't do a pretty job(davos is doing better) http://asoiaf.wester...l/#entry3175182 <-- a listing of SOME OF HIS PROBLEMS

he doesn't care that sansa isn't cat she just a doll for him

not to mention he burned nearly all bridges available to him (who's left he can run to? euron and aegon both persons Lf should run to with sansa)

and that sansa's presence could be used to put the murder of joffrey on HIM

[Fire Eater]

Sansa always notes that his breath smells of mint. In that final chapter, he's alone late at night and she notices the smell of alcohol on his breath. If you combine that, his behavior towards her, and his unusual exuberance, it all points to the fact that he may be drunk. It's the very first time that Sansa notices alcohol with him, he has always been very careful before.

A vain young man, and greedy. Viserys lusted for his father's throne, but he lusted for Daenerys too, and was loath to give her up. The night before the princess wed he tried to steal into her bed, insisting that if he could not have her hand, he would claim her maidenhead. Had I not taken the precaution of posting guards upon her door, Viserys might have undone years of planning.

If Petyr is being less cautious around Sansa, especially with the drinking; Sansa is becoming less safe at the Gates of the Moon by the hour. Unlike with Viserys, the guards at the Gates of the Moon are under Petyr's command. Petyr may be marrying Sansa off to Harry the Heir, but deep inside he still wants her for himself.

[Kittykatknits]

If Petyr is being less cautious around Sansa, especially with the drinking; Sansa is becoming less safe at the Gates of the Moon by the hour. Unlike with Viserys, the guards at the Gates of the Moon are under Petyr's command. Petyr may be marrying Sansa off to Harry the Heir, but deep inside he still wants her for himself.

Oh, I think she is in more danger but she will also have more opportunity. Martin said that he pushed off a chapter of hers from Feast back to WoW because it kicks off new plotlines. Between the new people she is with, the potential Harry marriage, Sweetrobin's potential death, LF, and more, we are going to see her act.

I agree, LF's actions are a danger to her so I am curious how she will respond.

[Nuncle Kraken]

LF is only telling Sansa what he wants her to know, imo.

[the Scorpion Knight]

LF is only telling Sansa what he wants her to know, imo.

i don't think so: he telling her the weak points of his plan next gambles

[sertravisredbeard]

Will the Mountain Clans attack and carry her away to become the Bride of Shagga?

Won't some of the mountain clan leaders recognize her from their time in King's Landing? IIRC, Tyrion had some of them guard her door for him whenever Joffrey got all extra-psycho on her. It'd be pretty crazy if the clans do decide to go on a major rampage through the Vale with their new fancy weapons and are the ones that end up uncovering her true identity. Far-fetched but possible.

[Kittykatknits]

Won't some of the mountain clan leaders recognize her from their time in King's Landing? IIRC, Tyrion had some of them guard her door for him whenever Joffrey got all extra-psycho on her. It'd be pretty crazy if the clans do decide to go on a major rampage through the Vale with their new fancy weapons and are the ones that end up uncovering her true identity. Far-fetched but possible.

They did guard her briefly when he had her brought to the tower of the hand after the final time she was beaten. Tyrion also offered to give them as permanent guards but she refused as she didn't trust him and was meeting with Dontos already.

[Elba the Intoner]

Yes I agree that there are some in the mountain clans that would recognize her. This coupled with the fact that she is now Tyrion's wife could actually come in to play. Perhaps they will help her out rather than steal off with her. It's just another possibility of the many ways that her story could go.

[Danelle]

Between the new people she is with,

Do you think that being in the compaby of Myranda and Mya, Sansa will become more independent? Aside from the fact that LF is clearly unable to restrain himself in her presence, Sansa has friends. Cersei is not as cunning as LF but seperating Sansa from Jeyne and having Sansa surrounded by maids who were in her service was a smart move. Sansa was isolated and depended solely on the Lannisters. Had she not intervened to save Ser Dontos, it would have been very difficult for LF to approach her. But now Sansa is having friends. She is the only person that Robert trully loves/likes/depends on. Lady Anya also seems quite fond of her. Myranda is sassy and opinionated. Sansa's realtionship with Mya in a way duplicates the friendship between Ned and Robert B. I think that Sansa will gradually realise that

• Septa Mordane was right. A lady's courtesy is her armor. She will not need an army to conquer Vale. Just her good manners.
  
• LF is still LF. The smallest of smallest lords and he will remain unless he claims Harrenhal. LF is also superstitious and is reluctant to become Lord of Harrenhal though.
  

Sansa will contribute to his fall but LF doom will be his inferiority complex towards the highborn and his constant need to prove himself smarter. Cersei and Lysa were easy targets but the Lords of Vale?

[Pod The Impaler]

I always thought this was interesting. LF's smart enough to know that if he doesn't deliver a virginal Sansa to Harry, the marriage might be off, so he'll have to keep his "feelings" in relative check for a while. But there's no way he'll content himself with giving Cat 2.0 over to Brandon 2.0 forever, so he might just be trying to repeat what happened with Lysa, waiting until Sansa has Harry's child that he can lay claim to the Vale and Wintefell. It will probably be his attempts to kill Harry (either through Sansa or on his own) that will bring about his demise.

Certainly a possibility. I have long had a feeling his matching her with HtH is a ploy, that he doesn't intend to go through with it to the point where HtH is getting her pregnant. I think if he needs Harry's claim to fall to her, he will arrange some sort of instant widowhood for her.

I agree with you here: if Petyr is a narcissist then he is no doubt highly susceptible to Narcissistic supply. If Petyr is a psychopath, he is still susceptible to flattery, in fact one of the most flattering things for a psychopath is to pretend to be learning from them. Which Sansa does in AFFC.

This would work nicely, though I don't know how much conscious pretending Sansa is doing.

Won't some of the mountain clan leaders recognize her from their time in King's Landing? IIRC, Tyrion had some of them guard her door for him whenever Joffrey got all extra-psycho on her. It'd be pretty crazy if the clans do decide to go on a major rampage through the Vale with their new fancy weapons and are the ones that end up uncovering her true identity. Far-fetched but possible.

Oh I definitely think suspect Sansa will be meeting the mountain clans.

I also think if the clans act in force, it will be at Littlefinger's behest, since he was in KL not only when Tyrion first used them, but more importantly when Tyrion lost control of them. Someone sent them packing back to the Vale at Tywin's request - guess who probably did the leg work on that ?