Why are so many people optimistic about Jon being alive?

[Lady_Sansa]

if Jon is dead and becomes the villain I am 500% done

[Michael Snow]

This is a really good question. I have a feeling that I was far less certain about Jon being alive after reading the book and before finding these forums. There could be a sort of group consciousness that lets all of us forum users rationalize what we already want to believe... I hope not. Oh, God, I hope not. I really want Jon to be alive. I am, however, bracing myself for the scary possibility that he's dead. He could be in Ghost, he could be anything in the next book. We might even find out that R+L=J but not even have him alive to find out about it!

[Michael Snow]

if Jon is dead and becomes the villain I am 500% done

Don't say that, Lady Sansa. You've come way too far to back out over a broken heart now. How many times has GRRM twisted the knife already? What's a few more?

[Cruella]

More boring than Doran Martell? Loras?

Yes, definitely. I'd read their POVs over Jon every day. But then of course we have entire cast of Mereen, Areo Hotah, most Ironborn, and even Jon ends up being not so bad. He's the most boring character with interesting story, I'd say.

And yes, the fake death trick is way overplayed. Arya had it twice! and Asha. And Davos. And...

[Rantz]

The whole point of the prologue in ADWD is to explain how a warg can transfer their spirit to an animal if they die. Otherwise that prologue serves no purpose in the story. There's Melisandre's vision of Jon going from man-to-wolf-to-man. The most likely outcome is that Jon will warg into Ghost (we may get a couple of chapters of Ghost-Jon) until Melisandre's breathes life back into him.

[JJtheCrow]

Sorry Kevin. Not if they have the same meaning.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Sure I do. Why do you ask? Jon Snow is fortunately only one of the many main characters in the series, although the most boring by far.

Bad comparison. Oswald wasn't one of Kennedy's top subordinates.

1.You know, if all you are is just another Jon hater you aren't going to persuade anyone with this thread.

2.You didn't say that that was your standard. Jon was "keeping his enemies closer" as they say...but if you are going to be snarky about it Julius Caesar then. Brutus was suppose to have been one of his greatest friends...& JC's rule was very successful for Rome, but they cut him down...& then most of Rome got behind Octavian & Mark Anthony.

[ab aeterno]

2.You didn't say that that was your standard. Jon was "keeping his enemies closer" as they say...but if you are going to be snarky about it Julius Caesar then. Brutus was suppose to have been one of his greatest friends...& JC's rule was very successful for Rome, but they cut him down...& then most of Rome got behind Octavian & Mark Anthony.

That's a bit of an oversimplification :P but yeah, I think that is a good comparison. I know Jon/Caesar has been compared before and it seems quite apt.

[Scipio Africanus]

This is a really good question. I have a feeling that I was far less certain about Jon being alive after reading the book and before finding these forums. There could be a sort of group consciousness that lets all of us forum users rationalize what we already want to believe... I hope not. Oh, God, I hope not. I really want Jon to be alive. I am, however, bracing myself for the scary possibility that he's dead. He could be in Ghost, he could be anything in the next book. We might even find out that R+L=J but not even have him alive to find out about it!

I was by accident spoiled slightly while reading a wiki about GOT and its characters (was still reading the other books). Saw somewhere in a glans that Jon was to be assassinated (though I didn't know where) and thought "oh shit click this away before I get spoiled more".

When his end POV finally came in DWD I was pretty sure he was dead and thought "lame". Besides the "damnit still no Others" part. But I did have the feeling he'd warg into Ghost because of the Prologue and the comments in the tekst about Jon being a powerful skinchanger (or becoming one) and that he was warging into Ghost during daytime.

Then I came here and much to my relief a lot of people were actually optimistic that his story would continue. As a person even.

While I still can't say if he died or not (thanks to there being so little info on his "death" and the chaos surrounding the attack) I do have good hopes he'll warg into Ghost and maybe live another day.

If his human body isn't destroyed that is.

That's a bit of an oversimplification :P but yeah, I think that is a good comparison. I know Jon/Caesar has been compared before and it seems quite apt.

Actually Jon's assassination attempt might be more comparible with the attempt on Louis XV:

On 5 January 1757, would-be assassin Robert-Francois Damiens entered the Palace of Versailles, as did thousands of people every day to petition the king. At 6 pm, as night had fallen on a cold Versailles covered in snow, the king, who was visiting his daughter, left her apartments to return to the Trianon where he was staying. As he was walking in the Marble Courtyard between two lines of guards lighting the way with torches, headed toward his carriage which was waiting at the edge of the Marble Courtyard, Damiens emerged from the dark, passed through the guards, and stabbed the king in the side with a penknife.

The 8.1 cm (3.2 inch) blade entered the king's body between the fourth and fifth ribs. The king, who was bleeding, remained calm and called for a confessor as he thought he would die. Thoughts of poison came to his mind. At the sight of the queen, who had come in a hurry, he asked for forgiveness for his misbehaviour. However, the king survived. He was probably saved by the thick layers of clothes he wore on that cold day, which cushioned the blade, protecting the internal organs. Allegedly, the blade penetrated only 1 cm (0.4 inch) into the king's body, leading Voltaire to mock what he called a "pinprick".

From wikipedia

[Tharvot]

I am convinced that Jon is still alive for many of the reasons listed before: his plot arc is no where near completed and he is the only main POV character left at The Wall.

I am also a firm believer in the R+L=J theory, which further enhances my faith that Jon is alive. For my money, I'm willing to wager that Jon is THE main character in this whole story. He may or may not survive through the end of the series, but there are far too many questions surrounding his story for GRRM to off him.

Perhaps he is somehow marked by the cold, scarred and forever changed. I like that thought and I also like the thought of the boy dieing so the man can live. In the Greyjoy words, I think he will rise from this incident harder and stronger than before.

All hail Jon Snow (Targaryen), The Undying?

[ab aeterno]

Actually Jon's assassination attempt might be more comparible with the attempt on Louis XV:

True, but it's less well known so I'd argue that it isn't as good an example, though it's a good comparison.

[mimic751]

It could be Jon's death is the cause of the wall falling, because the crows and wildlings are going to fight eachother. this will cause the most plausible last story arc of westeros vs the others

[Scipio Africanus]

True, but it's less well known so I'd argue that it isn't as good an example, though it's a good comparison.

Well it isn't accurate either cuz it was just one loon trying to kill the king but it caught my eye because the blade was stopped because of the thickness of the clothing (I stumbled upon this little trivia by accident myself).

[mimic751]

Sorry for the double post, but his arc would be completed if his purpose was to bring the destruction of the wall

[Scipio Africanus]

Sorry for the double post, but his arc would be completed if his purpose was to bring the destruction of the wall

I doubt his death alone is needed to bring down the Wall - or it would've fallen when Jeor Mormont was murdered.

Something else needs to happen for that too.

[ab aeterno]

Well it isn't accurate either cuz it was just one loon trying to kill the king but it caught my eye because the blade was stopped because of the thickness of the clothing (I stumbled upon this little trivia by accident myself).

I still think it's potentially a good comparison because the clothing issue is definitely one of the big (not supernatural) questions regarding Jon's "death."

[mimic751]

But his death would cause a civil war of sorts. Both "factions" wildlings and crows, hold a seat of power.

the crows have their training and homefield advantage

the wildlings have numbers

They both have fortresses.

Why would the author focus so heavily on the tension and razor edge Jon was walking with his strategy if a revolt was never going to happen.

[Scipio Africanus]

But his death would cause a civil war of sorts. Both "factions" wildlings and crows, hold a seat of power.

the crows have their training and homefield advantage

the wildlings have numbers

They both have fortresses.

Why would the author focus so heavily on the tension and razor edge Jon was walking with his strategy if a revolt was never going to happen.

Oh, I agree, in fact I was wondering what has happened seconds/minutes after Jon goes down. There's a lot of screaming going on (fighting?) and there's a mildly upset Giant on the loose.

I can imagine Tormund's men and Marsh&co supporters coming to blows. Throw in the remaining of Selyse's knights and hell is raised.

Still, that alone wouldn't be enough to bring down the Wall, or else it would've come down when Jon first holds of the Wildlings and later when Stan makes his dramatic appearance (Jeor by this time was dead for a while now).

[mimic751]

I still think it's potentially a good comparison because the clothing issue is definitely one of the big (not supernatural) questions regarding Jon's "death."

He was stabbed repeatedly, Im fairly certain a trained crow knows how to stab someone

[Scipio Africanus]

He was stabbed repeatedly, Im fairly certain a trained crow knows how to stab someone

Marsh wasn't known for his combat prowess, I doubt the others were either(wasn't a stewart with them as well?). In fact they looked pretty terryfied as Jon reached for Longclaw. A Qhorin Halfhand would've killed Jon in a single blow probably.

Only 2 out of 4 were actually hit target enough to cause damage (stomach and shoulderblades). The forth one Jon never felt. Might have hit target, might not have been if it glanced off of him.