Roberts bastard cersie

[starkfever]

Okay so my question is would Robert have been a good father to his trueborn children if not for cersie. I ask this because the memories of Mya seem to be very fond of Robert, he seemed to be a great father until the war started and he had to leave, then came the end of the war and him marrying cersie. It seems to me that he showed more love to Mya than any of his "trueborn" children. Personally i think he didnt' treat joff, myrcella, and tommen as his kids because he didn't have anything to relate to them with, plus cersie probably didn't want him anywhere near them. I also think that she did not want him anywhere near his bastards so did all she could to not let him see them. Honestly I think Robert would have been a good father and a good king if he married someone other than cersie and who gave him his actual kids of his own blood.

[Jedi Master Hot Pie]

True, though I'm pretty sure the world in general would've just been a better place had Cersei fallen off Casterly Rock at the age of 5 or something.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Didn't Robert want to bring Mya to court?

[TheZone]

Okay so my question is would Robert have been a good father to his trueborn children if not for cersie. I ask this because the memories of Mya seem to be very fond of Robert, he seemed to be a great father until the war started and he had to leave, then came the end of the war and him marrying cersie. It seems to me that he showed more love to Mya than any of his "trueborn" children. Personally i think he didnt' treat joff, myrcella, and tommen as his kids because he didn't have anything to relate to them with, plus cersie probably didn't want him anywhere near them. I also think that she did not want him anywhere near his bastards so did all she could to not let him see them. Honestly I think Robert would have been a good father and a good king if he married someone other than cersie and who gave him his actual kids of his own blood.

I think I read that Cercei's kids cried whenever he held them, but the bastards laughed and enjoyed him.

[dtones520]

He pretended he loved Edric Storm but could really give a rats ass about him. Remember in the book when they talked about how someone in the council would send him a gift, saying it was from Robert, and then when they would tell Robert he would laugh and ask what they gave him this year.

I think Robert was a lost man after the Rebellion, the main reason for him fighting it and taking the Throne was Lyanna. When she died a part of Robert died with her. Even though she never loved him. I don't think Robert was capable of loving anything but wine and fucking because they helped him forget Lyanna.

[Jefferson of Monticello]

Robert generally is a pretty good guy imo. I think the culprit was and is Cersei. She's beyond nag level or she-devil level as a matter of fact. she is in a league of her own when it comes to vindictive wives.

Robert would have definitely closer to his children, and he probably would've recognized some of his bastards as well. Even if he is drunk half the time, there'll definitely be time where he hangs out with his kids. I also think he's driven to drunkness and stupor partially by cersei

[Jem]

Robert is a fair-weather father at best to his bastards. He is the kind of father who gives lots of presents (although it isn't even him who buys or organises them), plays a few games with his kids and then leaves pretty quickly once the kid actually needs any real attention. Like with all things, Robert is only into the good times, when things get hard he passes off his problems onto someone else or just ignores them.

[Queen Cersei I]

Okay so my question is would Robert have been a good father to his trueborn children if not for cersie.

From what we see, I don't think so.

At one point, Cersei notes to Sansa, "Robert just wanted to be loved.... he went to his whores and his drunkard friends where he could find easy love. My brother has the same disease."

Of course, while Ceresi is hardly the best person to give a piece of unbiased description against her late husband, I think she hits the nail on the head here.

The picture of King Bob happily playing with little Mya is indeed a touching one. As Ned notes*, "The Lord of Storm's End had doted on the child, long after he'd tired of the girl."

Saying that it was indeed the wicked Cersei who prevented Robert from forming close, loving relationships with his natural children would be an easy assumption. But it does not take into account Robert's action towards Edric Storm, Mya herself, or all his other bastards.

Robert did indeed play with Mya-- when she was little, fun, and things were easy. However, after he went off to war, he moved away and proceeded to utterly forget about her forever. (As Mya notes, "He was always there to catch me, though. Until the day he was not.") After the war Robert could have kept in touch with Mya, supported her mother, brougt her closer to him, supported her in some way. He didn't. He pretty much forgot about her, leaving her without a father because she was no longer a fun, easy, convenient source of easy love for him.

Robert enjoyed playing with Mya and doting on the little girl who worshipped him. But he soon (and easily) forgot her; making no effort not only to stay in touch with the girl, but to take care of her basic needs-- which, as king, he could have easily done. His utter abandonment of her (which left her with a lifelong mistrust of men in general which still haunts her) suggests the shallowness of his affections and the constant pattern of shirking his responsibilites that he'll show throughout his life.

Of course, Robert does suggest that Mya come to court-- after Joffrey cuts open a cat at age seven or eight. The timing is signficant here-- if Joffrey is eight or so, at least ten years have passed since Robert has abandoned his "beloved" daughter without a word or any financial support. The now 14 year old Mya has been utterly abandoned by her father for 10 years, since age four; the psychological damage, needless to say, has already been done. The (at least) decade long period of neglect suggests that Robert's reasons for "suddenly caring" for his daughter have little to do with unselfish paternal love, everything to do with selfish personal reasons.

And indeed, he wants his sweet, nice little natural daughter to come to court suddenly directly after his (he believes) eldest kid has proven himself to be a crazy, nasty psycho. It seems that his desire has less to do with wanting to love, care for, and help Mya; more to do with convincing himself he is a really good guy and a great dad capable of producing decent, caring offspring after all. If he'd wanted to be a truly good dad and help his bastard child out, it seems weird that he'd wait ten years to ever even think of doing a thing for her-- and only think of her after his "son" had proved horrible; leading Robert to apparently feel insecure as to his ability to create normal children.

Furthermore, Robert's "kindly" desire to bring Mya to court seems to have, once again, noting to do with truly loving, selfless motives. As Ned points out, any bastard would be mocked an ridiculed at court. The fact that Jon Snow, son of the second most powerful man in the land would have been miserable/ without place at court suggests that Mya almost surely would have as well.

As for the others, I think Robert's behavior tells its own story. Despite unlimited money and resources, he made no effort whatsoever to care for the children of his conquests-- with the said conquests often being extremely young girls themselves--14 or 15 seem to be his preferred age.

Even with Edric Storm, where he has a good, decent, loving boy who worships him-- and whom Cersei can decidedly not harm-- Robert takes no interest. Sure, he plays the part of the daddy and sees him once a year. But his attitude is otherwise one of utter neglect-- he even has Varys pick out the boys birth day presents, for christs sake. Stannis clarifies this, noting, "Robert loved making the babies, but was never willing to be a father." (Stannis himself seems to enjoy liking the shadow babies with Mel, but that's another topic for another day....)

Overall, Robert's patterns suggest that he was fond of the fun of being a parent-- having a fun, cute young kid who worshipped him to dote upon. He liked playing with the cute, worshipful Mya and doing the fun stuff. No doubt he also may have had some fun if he'd had a wife who'd borne him cute, nice, little look alike heirs. But his patterns of shallow emotional response, of shirking responsibilty, of failing to come through for those who need him, of never following through on his promises-- these things suggest that Robert would have been something of a dead beat dad regardless. Certainly, I think it would have been his way to neglect and to neglect and break promises to his former conquests and utterly shirk responsibility for caring for his bastards regardless.

For Robert life was basically a party with no consequences, and bastards were a gigantic consequence-- and thus, prone to ruining the fun. There's a reason why after the Delena incident he almost solely pursued poor, teenage prostitutes of the common classes-- having impregnated a noble girl, he then had to own up to the child he fathered upon her-- a major buzz kill.

*Not an exact quote; I'll have to look up the original...but very close.

[Cat of the Canal Girl]

Honestly I think Robert would have been a good father and a good king if he married someone other than cersie and who gave him his actual kids of his own blood.

Well to answer the question we'd really have to ask who the other woman he married was... that's pretty much half the picture of what shapes his fatherhood right there.

[Independent George]

Robert was great at playing with kids, and completely uninterested in things like teaching them about honor, duty, responsibility, respect, and how to be a decent human being. And as any parent will tell you, that's the important part. Doting on a child is easy; teaching them to be all the things that you're not is hard.

[Dr. Pepper]

Honestly I think Robert would have been a good father and a good king if he married someone other than cersie and who gave him his actual kids of his own blood.

Yeah, tossing a toddler around in the air is not exactly what makes for a good parent. A good parent would tell their spouse to go fuck themselves if that spouse threatened the life of their child. A decent father probably wouldn't be the type to blame his wife for his poor parenting, either. Cersei is a lot of negative things, but she is not responsible for how Robert chose to behave. Wouldn't it sound stupid if we turned this around and asked whether or not Cersei would have been a better person if Robert hadn't been such a poor human being? Yup, that sounds pretty stupid.

[Hear Us Roar]

As good as most of the fathers in the realm. He would bond with his son, take him hunting, teach him to fight. If Joffrey was more like Gendry things would have been different.

[TheZone]

.For Robert life was basically a party with no consequences, and bastards were a gigantic consequence-- and thus, prone to ruining the fun. There's a reason why after the Delena incident he almost solely pursued poor, teenage prostitutes of the common classes-- having impregnated a noble girl, he then had to own up to the child he fathered upon her-- a major buzz kill.

What if he had a child with Lyanna though he would worship him/her, and if they were bastards the child would have been legitimized for sure no matter what Cercei would have said.

[Headless Jeyne]

Robert is not a bad guy, except for being a horrible horrible dad. He is the classic guy who says "I love my kids...I'm a great Dad" but in reality shows up once a year with a birthday present and sends some sporadic child support payments. I'm not sure how you can blame Cersei for this, especially for his running around and fathering a bunch of bastards. I think it's pretty clear from the book she would have rathered he not do this.

[Headless Jeyne]

What if he had a child with Lyanna though he would worship him/her, and if they were bastards the child would have been legitimized for sure no matter what Cercei would have said.

I disagree, I forget the exact quote (maybe someone else remembers) but even Lyanna said Robert would basically end up running around on her...

[Queen Cersei I]

Robert was great at playing with kids, and completely uninterested in things like teaching them about honor, duty, responsibility, respect, and how to be a decent human being. And as any parent will tell you, that's the important part. Doting on a child is easy; teaching them to be all the things that you're not is hard.

Yeah. And if his behavior with Mya is any indication, even long term doting was not amongst Robert's talents.

Robert generally is a pretty good guy imo.

Well, certainly, many people take this perspective, including the author. He's called Robert Baratheon "basically a great guy in a lot of ways." However, for some, Robert's horrible lack of responsibility (WRT his bastards and other issues); his approval of child murder; his ordering a 14 year old girl and her unborn child dead simply out of self concern; and many other acts would categorize him as a pretty lousy human being.

Sure, he wasn't evil or sociopathic. He was capable of empathy and remorse just like the rest of us, which surely makes him more "relatable" than many other characters. However, despite knowing what the right thing was, Robert frequently shows himself unwilling to do it. However, his being "nice" or "jollly" doesn't really change the fact that he seldom did the right thing-- he, in fact, frequently failed to act with the most basic decency, doing what was easy rather than what was right. For instance, his ordering Danerys murdered rather than braving the threat she posed. Or his giving in to Cerise's demand that lady be murdered.

Of course, when Robert says, "Damn you, Cersei!" And trudges off sadly, the common response is to pity poor Robert and loath Cersei, who is smiling with wicked triumph.

And yet some might note that Robert's moral weakness, his refusal to endure the slightest bit of difficulty and stand up for his friend, was every bit as damaging to Ned, the Stark girls, and Lady as Cersei's outright malice.

Honestly, it's be easy to say, "Cersei made Robert bad!" And yet, such an assessment does not really hold up to close scrutiny. Robert may have been good natured, which was fine, as far as that went. But he was also weak, selfish, utterly without a moral spine, and lacked all moral courage-- something that in a leader, proved disasterous-- in many cases (such as the direwolf incident) it proved every bit as destructive as Cersei's deliberate malice.

Robert generally is a pretty good guy imo. I think the culprit was and is Cersei.

That may be so, but we see Robert's pattern of neglect and shirking his responsibilities begin at an early age.

Before Robert even knew Cersei, the habit of sleeping with women, impregnating them, and abandoning had begun. As had other habits, such as heavy drinking and promiscuity.

Tellingly, Robert's greatest friend and apologist-- and Cersei's greatest enemy-- Ned Stark, never once blames Cersei for Robert's drunkenness and neglect of his children. He seems to see these things as a continuation of Robert's nature, which makes sense given everything we know of him.

Robert would have definitely closer to his children, and he probably would've recognized some of his bastards as well.

The thing is, he's had ample opportunity to do that in his situation in AGOT-- with Edric. But rather than doing it, (spending tim with the one bastard that, according to many, he was forced to begrudgingly recognize), he makes every effort to avoid doing it. Stannis describes this when he notes Robert's deliberate avoidance of taking any responsibility for Edric, taking care to see the boy as little as possible (once a year), and actually has Varys pick out the boys presents.

He does have every opportunity to "hang out with Edric" and become part of the boys life. Yet he choses not to, because he doesn't really feel like it; drinking, hunting, whoring, and feasting are all more fun. This has nothing to do with Cersei Lannister; this is due to flaws within Robert's own personality.

[Cruella]

Robert is like a guy who won't pay child support until forced by court.

Mia could die ten times of hunger or some easily treatable disease, for all Robert cared. Think about it - he knows about her, he knows HER, he played with her even and had some affection, and then, having all the money in the world, he can't even make sure that her basic needs are met. Because as soon as she's out of sight he just doesn't give a shit.

He didn't give a shit about Edric, either. Other people with some decency cared about some of his bastards, he didn't. Other people send him gifts, he couldn't even bother to do that.

On his deathbed, he asks Ned to take care about his trueborn children, no mention of others, even as he knows about Barra already (his daughter who's growing up in whorehouse). His attitude about his bastards reminds me more of Euron - ultimately, they do not matter.

Cersei couldnt keep Robert away from her kids, he has all the power in relationship and in general. For one, she doesn't want him to beat her or to force her to sleep with him, but is unable to stop him. Raising these children should have had been priority for Robert, as some of these kids were going to be ruling country for christ sakes. And two of them are very nice kids, plus, any man who needs his child to be a carbon copy of himself to care for them is a horrible parent. Loras had no problem building some rapport with Tommen, afterall, and he's not his biological relative either. Martells are fond of Mircella, no problem here. It is understandable to be unable to care for Joffrey, but not making any effort with heir to the throne is criminally irresponsible.

But Robert just wants to be left alone and forget himself in drink and women.

[Danelle]

Robert was the eldest of the Baratheon brothers, the most handsomeand the most strong. He had an alluring personality. Renly was nothing like him. Nor Stannis. They were smarter that Robert though. He was the ultimate fighter. Jaime at some point thinks that he loves two things: fighting and fucking but when the time comes, Jaime faces his responsibilities, saves Tyrion and goes against Cersei and Tywin. Robert could not even save Lady and refused to go against Cersei on that matter. His relationship with his kids is excy like his relationship with the kingdom. He exterminated the Targaryens and reigned through the help of Jon Arryn and LF. He slept with those women and then forgot all about them. When Mya was born he was 15 and a reckless youn lord. He didn't really care for her and bringin her to the court would be a mistake. Even if the Lannister were out of the picture he still wouldn't care. He was the kind of man that lives for war, fighting, killing, sleeping with women and nothing else.

[mormont]

Well, certainly, many people take this perspective, including the author. He's called Robert Baratheon "basically a great guy in a lot of ways."

Could you explain where this quote comes from? I'm not able to locate it... so far as I know, GRRM's attitude to Robert is pretty much 'yeah, he could be charming and a lot of fun, but he was also a pretty lousy human being, a selfish, irresponsible asshole with serious anger issues' - which is, as you point out, how he wrote him.

[Cruella]

I actually know couple of guys like that. They play with their small kids, spend time with them, and one thinks "What a great did this guy will be!" And then he gets bored with their mother, and forgets kids altogether, too. Now, maybe these women somehow should have had forced their exes to spend time with kids still, or maybe guy's new wife (Cersei, in that case) should have had make sure that he still gives a damn about his offsprings, but you know, it is parent's own responsibility to make sure they are close with their children and to make sure these children are taken care of, not their wives', not their mistresses', their own. That's what being a parent is.