Ser Areo Mace Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The loss of Lyanna and the bitterness of Cersei ruined Robert. Erase Cersei for this equation and Robert might have been a better king/father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The loss of Lyanna and the bitterness of Cersei ruined Robert. Erase Cersei for this equation and Robert might have been a better king/father."Loss of Lyanna"? If he was that much in love with Lyanna, how is that he managed to sleep with a tavernful of girls during the battle of the Bells while-according to him at least-his lady was being held captive and raped?Remove Cersei and chances are that the kingdom would have sunk even further into debt without Lannister gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilenadheas Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 "Loss of Lyanna"? If he was that much in love with Lyanna, how is that he managed to sleep with a tavernful of girls during the battle of the Bells while-according to him at least-his lady was being held captive and raped?Remove Cersei and chances are that the kingdom would have sunk even further into debt without Lannister gold.Unfortunately love and fidelity don't always go hand in hand. Robert did love Lyanna, but his concept of "Lyanna my true love" as opposed to the real person. It doesn't invalidate the feelings imo.So true about Lannister gold, the marriage allaince was mutually beneficial from a political point of view (with obvious drawbacks) which seems to be forgotten during the occasional Robert pity parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Robert is not a bad guy, except for being a horrible horrible dad.Also a rapist, a wife beater and a child murderer. But apart from that....He was an atrocious father, he was too busy whoring, hunting and drinking 24/7. It had nothing to do with Cersei, it's just the kind of person he was - lazy, selfish and totally irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The loss of Lyanna and the bitterness of Cersei ruined Robert. Erase Cersei for this equation and Robert might have been a better king/father.Hmm, the plot thickens. It wasn't just Cersei that made Robert a sucky human, it was Lyanna also! Damn that wolf girl for getting herself lost and ruining Robert for the rest of his days! He would have never whored or neglected his children if Lyanna hadn't gotten herself lost and Cersei hadn't become bitter after a few months (or was it years?) of marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalalOfDorne Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 As mentioned before he loves playing with his natural children, but when its time for them to grow and for him to be more responsible he leaves them.And when he was fighting the rebellion he probably never felt more alive, but after that he just felt burdened and again escapes the responsibilities of being king.Basically he just hates responsibility and burdens and does his best to avoid them, so whether he was married to Cercei or Lyanna he would've been the same man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Okay so my question is would Robert have been a good father to his trueborn children if not for cersie. I ask this because the memories of Mya seem to be very fond of Robert, he seemed to be a great father until the war started and he had to leave, then came the end of the war and him marrying cersie. It seems to me that he showed more love to Mya than any of his "trueborn" children. Personally i think he didnt' treat joff, myrcella, and tommen as his kids because he didn't have anything to relate to them with, plus cersie probably didn't want him anywhere near them. I also think that she did not want him anywhere near his bastards so did all she could to not let him see them. Honestly I think Robert would have been a good father and a good king if he married someone other than cersie and who gave him his actual kids of his own blood.Robert was a feckless father, who didn't give a fig for his bastard children, or their mothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolantero Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 A good parent would tell their spouse to go fuck themselves if that spouse threatened the life of their child. Well Robert beat her up for threatning his children. He couldn't do anything more because then he would have the Lannisters (to whom the throne was in great financial debt) against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Africanus Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Bob wasn't the best of men. A good soldier but for the rest not a stellar human being nor a great king.I doubt he'd have made a good husband / father with any woman to be honest, which is why Lyanna didn't exactly jump for joy at the prospect of marrying him despite that Eddard pimped his rep.But ol' Bob says it best himself, to Eddard. What he really wanted to do was give up that stupid throne, KL and Cercei, and pick up his warhammer once more and become a merc in Essos, just to feel alive again.Some men need to be contained and only released during wartime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Yes, Robert's ideal life would have been (as he put it) "warring and whoring" (and drinking). Had he had the choice, he'd probably never have bothered getting married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Unfortunately love and fidelity don't always go hand in hand. Robert did love Lyanna, but his concept of "Lyanna my true love" as opposed to the real person. It doesn't invalidate the feelings imo.It isn't his sleeping around that makes me doubt his feelings but his doing so when he thinks that the girl he loves is being held prisoner and raped. I am not judging his promiscuity, just his callous behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 He may have been a absent father to most of his bastards but In one of Cersei's POV chapters from a Feast for Crows she mentions or remembers Robert wanting to bring Mya Stone to court but she made some kind of threat and put a stop to that. I can't find it in Crows right now but if someone remembers that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolantero Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 He may have been a absent father to most of his bastards but In one of Cersei's POV chapters from a Feast for Crows she mentions or remembers Robert wanting to bring Mya Stone to court but she made some kind of threat and put a stop to that. I can't find it in Crows right now but if someone remembers that would be great.That's the extract i was thinking earlier, when Robert beats Cersei for threatning one of his children. "Her husband’s by-blows had his look as well, though at least Robert had the grace to keep them out of sight. Once, after that sorry business with the cat, he had made some noises about bringing some baseborn daughter of his to court. "Do as you please," she’d told him, "but you may find that the city is not a healthy place for a growing girl." The bruise those words had won her had been hard to hide from Jaime, but they heard no more about the bastard girl. "AFFC Page197 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 That was about ten years after he left her to fend for herself in the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilenadheas Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 It isn't his sleeping around that makes me doubt his feelings but his doing so when he thinks that the girl he loves is being held prisoner and raped. I am not judging his promiscuity, just his callous behaviour.I just assumed it was his way of coping, getting hammered and fucking random girls to forget the situation around him, much like the way he acts as king. Still, it is extremely shitty behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm sure that there was a certain set of circumstances that could have happened that would have helped Robert become a good father. Given what did happen through his youth...no, he did not have the make up to be one. Since no one could tell him what to do, it wouldn't be as if a "strong wife" could force him into paying attention or staying faithful.Robert was great winning the throne...but not holding it. Robert was great at winning a hand...but not holding on to it.Unless changes happened very early on, the Robert we see - to me - was incapable of being a "good father". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnorak Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Yeah, tossing a toddler around in the air is not exactly what makes for a good parent. A good parent would tell their spouse to go fuck themselves if that spouse threatened the life of their child. A decent father probably wouldn't be the type to blame his wife for his poor parenting, either. Cersei is a lot of negative things, but she is not responsible for how Robert chose to behave. Wouldn't it sound stupid if we turned this around and asked whether or not Cersei would have been a better person if Robert hadn't been such a poor human being? Yup, that sounds pretty stupid.Agreed completely. I do think there is a hypothetical distinction to made in that no matter who Cersei were to ever be married to she would always be exactly the same. Had Robert married a different woman he may have been a better parent and king. Robert had the inclinations to be a decent, or at least better, human being but was too weak to do so based on his own sense of self. He could have taken Mya to court just as Ned took Jon to Winterfell-- it isn't like Cat was exactly more supportive of that choice than Cersei. Plus Mya was clearly from well before Robert was married unlike Jon. Robert chose avoiding the Cersei hassle over his own child.For someone who was so readily accepted as a King he was very easily swayed by those around him making him both a natural leader and follower. So given given the malleable nature of Robert, sure he might have been a better X if he surrounded himself with better people. We see a little of this as Ned's presence begins to bring out the better side of Robert. That in no way excuses Robert from any of the responsibility for the choices he made including his choice to marry Cersei in the first place and allow himself to be surrounded by Lannisters. One could even place more blame on Robert because he was the one who could have been different by his very nature where as Cersei was always going to be exactly who she is and has always been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 All this hate. Robert baratheon you are the man. I Love ya bro. Just a guy who wanted to party and have fun, I won't fault him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Agreed completely. I do think there is a hypothetical distinction to made in that no matter who Cersei were to ever be married to she would always be exactly the same. Had Robert married a different woman he may have been a better parent and king. I don't agree: for me, it's much more the other way around. Had Cersei married Rhaegar, I think she'd have been a different woman. Not necessarily a saint, or even a better person, but different, for sure. So much of her story is about her bitterness at how she was traded to Robert by her father, and how that marriage worked out, that it seems to me a no-brainer that a different marriage would lead to a different Cersei.Robert, on the other hand, is much more the author of his own problems, mostly because he was too weak to listen to anyone who told him things he didn't want to hear. I think he'd have been less damaged if he hadn't married Cersei - but not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Do you guys think if cercei had another husband she would have ditched Jaime and had her husbands kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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